There's lot more to ask here, and it is all uncomfortable, but by way of reflection, I wonder how "good girl" can be equated with misogyny? What am I missing here?
bb
> Hi all!
> I was puzzled by the storm raised by Ricardo's use of the phrase, 'good
> girl'. Offensive as it might sound, interpreting it , as Phil suggests,
> from the dominant 'western standard English', wasn't his voice marginalised
> by not asking for his meaning first? This is what we try to do with the
> culturally diverse students, i.e., negotiate to understand THEIR
> INTENTwithout imposing our assumptions prematurely.
> best
> tara
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Phil Chappell <philchappell@mac.com>
> >Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >CC: Ricardo Japiassu <rjapias@uol.com.br>
> >Subject: Re: RES: [xmca] Objecting to objectification
> >Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:18:36 +0700
> >
> >Dear Ricardo and All,
> >
> >I have been working with English users/learners in a similar context to
> >yours, Ricardo (and others here on xmca), for 10 years here in Thailand. I
> >saw immediately an "inappropriate" instance of language use that you made
> >and that many of my students make - it is an unfortunate reality that the
> >indeterminate delicate social and cultural constraints on language use in
> >particular contexts are not known to them and you, particularly as you and
> >they are enclosed from everyday activity where English helps shapes that
> >activity. It is a fact that one form of English or an other in most
> >international undertakings, and on xmca a western academic standard of
> >English, is the dominant tool for communication and shared consciousness.
> >There lies one tension, if not a contradiction.
> >
> >In my experience with English language learners who are beyond the level
> >of struggling to share and build meanings with others because of their
> >lack of proficiency, it is the idioms, metaphors and colloquial uses of
> >English that get them into situations like these. In my experience and
> >opinion, it is not as simple as looking to first language equivalents in
> >thought to make a judgement on the meaning intentions. But how else can an
> >actor become more than a peripheral participant?
> >
> >I, like the majority I assume am happy at Mary's response, and the
> >thoughtful responses of everyone shows yet again what an incombustible
> >community xmca has become over the years.
> >
> >To Mike's response, can I suggest that we have periods of language use
> >other than English on the list? I reckon a number of legitimate peripheral
> >participants just may enter into the main discussions if the language were
> >one that they were more familiar with. And there is always a number of
> >online translation services for folks like me who couldn't keep up in
> >Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Japanese....... I have learned much from
> >posts that have gone to the lexical meanings of the author's first
> >language (for example, smysl and znachenie) and expect I will learn more
> >by struggling in another language.
> >
> >Respectfully to All,
> >
> >Phil
> >
> >An added thought...over the years that I have been on the xmca list I
> >think I have had 4 or 5 private messages indicating surprise in one form
> >or other that my gender is male. I've never really thought much about it,
> >as I use my short name Phil for Philip, but perhaps there are some answers
> >to our questions to be found there. Two of the messages were from females,
> >I think...
> >
> >
> >On 29/10/2005, at 2:17 AM, Ricardo Japiassu wrote:
> >
> >>Dear Mary Bryson and all,
> >>
> >>That was not my intention - misogynist sexist objectification of Dr.
> >>Setsenko's writings.
> >>
> >>What I want to say, using the expression "good girl", is that she acts
> >>according predictable academic constrains and rules.
> >>
> >>It was not my intention to defend or advocate any "private men's club" -
> >>neither a private women's one, or a private gay one. I just tried to
> >>share
> >>some thoughts using English as a foreing language - and I had never the
> >>chance to study it in USA or Astralia or England and just made a basic
> >>course here, in Brazil, many years ago.
> >>
> >>Please, do not move elsewhere. I promise be silent and act in a
> >>periferical
> >>(lurking) way. Maybe I have been pathetic trying to communicate in a
> >>language that is not mine. Forgive-me if you felt the expression I made
> >>use
> >>as offensive.
> >>
> >>I did noy know it has this sense in English.
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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> >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
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