Dear David-
Thanks a lot for the reference! It is on my reading list now!
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: david.preiss@yale.edu [mailto:david.preiss@yale.edu]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:35 PM
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: Sleep-learning
>
>
> Dear Eugene,
>
> What you say reminds me a lot about incubation processess in insight.
> There is a book edited by Robert Sternberg which is call The Nature of
> Insigth. There is a chapter there by Czsikzentmihaly that makes
> contextual/cultural links with those processes.
>
> David
>
> Quoting Eugene Matusov <ematusov@udel.edu>:
>
> > Dear David-
> >
> > You wrote,
> > > I am not aware of any direct link with sleep. It
> > > may not be just an effect of being phisically fresh?
> >
> > It does not seem to be just being fresh. In the program, they were
> > saying
> > that people learn after experiencing so-called "fast sleep" but do
> > not after
> > "slow sleep" (I also remember them talking about eye movements,
> > dreaming,
> > and certain brain activities during "fast sleeps"). Usually series of
> > "fast"
> > and "slow" sleep alternate, however more "fast sleeps" occur just
> > before
> > people wake up "naturally". The study claimed that if a person is
> > waked up
> > before experiencing many "fast sleeps", he or she shows little
> > learning.
> > However, if the person experienced many "fast" sleeps, there is
> > evidence of
> > learning (i.e., improvements of certain tasks). Again, I want to
> > remind you
> > that their experiments on learning involve very decontextualized
> > motor
> > tasks. In the program, the subjects were teenagers and the point of
> > the
> > program was that the teens do not have enough sleep because their
> > "natural"
> > sleep cycle often shifts to later time in night - late morning (even
> > noon)
> > and does not fit school schedule that results in inhibiting learning
> > because
> > they have fewer "fast sleeps". As to feeling fresh, people can feel
> > fresh
> > with or without experiencing many "fast sleeps".
> >
> > In research on learning, changes in organism are often not taken
> > into
> > account. Although, when they are, it tends to be very
> > decontextualized
> > research from behavioristic and information-processing
> > perspectives.
> >
> > I found some of these studies on the Internet:
> > http://coe.sdsu.edu/eet/Articles/sleep_memory/index.htm
> > http://216.239.39.104/search?
> q=cache:85Wo79RKNdsJ:a1162.fmg.uva.nl/~djb/publ
> > ications/1989/biermanwinter.pdf+learning+during+sleep&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
> >
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031009065044.htm
> >
> > It can be interesting for situated cognition, sociocultural and AT
> > approaches to look at the phenomenon. For example, it would be a
> > fascinating
> > research to track how different cultures (and historical times)
> > manage
> > learning during sleep. In Russian folk fairytales, heroes are often
> > advised
> > to go to sleep after they faced with a difficult challenge because
> > "morning
> > is wiser than evening." I do not know how other cultures approach it
> > but I'm
> > sure they did. In Europe, after the Enlightenment, learning during
> > sleep
> > seemed to be rejected as a superstition, although, again it was
> > interesting
> > to track it. With reference to, I guess, Levy-Brule (sp?), Vygotsky
> > mentioned about traditional cultures when influential people wanted
> > to see
> > in sleep a solution of a problem they faced. Vygotsky saw it a
> > "primitive"
> > decision making, but, as we know, he was very Euro-centric. My
> > examples seem
> > to be more about decision making than about learning (although,
> > they
> > obviously relate) but it can be interesting to check specifically
> > about
> > learning as well.
> >
> > Learning during sleep undermines a pedagogical myth that teaching
> > directly
> > causes learning or must directly cause learning. It also undermines
> > another,
> > but related, pedagogical myth that learning (and experience) is
> > clearly
> > concentrated rather being fuzzy and distributed on the time scale.
> > Learning
> > during sleep makes post-event learning more evident.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Eugene
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: david.preiss@yale.edu [mailto:david.preiss@yale.edu]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 1:00 AM
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: RE: Reflection and change in a CHAT/Cultural Psychology
> > paradigm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Eugene,
> > >
> > > I think that cognitive research on insight and incubation may give
> > you
> > > some keys, although I am not aware of any direct link with sleep.
> > It
> > > may not be just an effect of being phisically fresh?
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > Quoting Eugene Matusov <ematusov@udel.edu>:
> > >
> > > > Dear Phil-
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Phil. I've heard about work of Lozanov and suggestopaedia
> > but
> > > > I do
> > > > not know any research about that. But the research I was talking
> > does
> > > > not
> > > > seem to relate to Lozanov and suggestopaedia. I think that we
> > all
> > > > familiar
> > > > with the phenomenon when "morning is wiser than evening" (using
> > > > Russian
> > > > saying), we felt changed after a sleep. Some people even talk
> > about
> > > > problem
> > > > being solved during asleep but there is (at least anecdotal)
> > evidence
> > > > that
> > > > people can improve their skills and understanding after being
> > > > asleep....
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to read any research about that...
> > > >
> > > > Eugene
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Phil Chappell [mailto:phil_chappell@access.inet.co.th]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 8:22 PM
> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > Subject: Re: Reflection and change in a CHAT/Cultural
> > Psychology
> > > > paradigm
> > > > >
> > > > > Is that anything along the lines of the work of Lozanov and
> > > > > suggestopaedia, Eugene?
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > > > > On Mar 21, 2004, at 8:01 AM, Eugene Matusov wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Talking about sleeping. Does somebody know good research
> > > > references
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > learning during (fast) sleep? About a month ago, I saw a
> > program
> > > > on PBS
> > > > > > about some research (I guess in Canada) about that. It was
> > a
> > > > research
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > teenagers learning a rather simple motor task (very
> > > > decontextualized)
> > > > > > before
> > > > > > going to sleep and then checked immediately after sleep.
> > The
> > > > research
> > > > > > shows
> > > > > > that people learn during fast sleep...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Eugene
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> From: Mike Cole [mailto:mcole@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 7:33 PM
> > > > > >> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > >> Subject: RE: Reflection and change in a CHAT/Cultural
> > > > Psychology
> > > > > >> paradigm
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> If my early morning are reflective and "reflective" of being
> > in
> > > > a near
> > > > > >> sleeping state, heaven help our students who are becoming
> > > > sleepier by
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> minute.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
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