OK, since we are discussing goals, and how and when they are defined, what
do you all see as the relationship between "goal" and "agency"? I mean,
there has been a lot of criticism about the notion of agency (and who has it
in which situations). I am thinking that everybody has goals, regardless of
there positioning in the activity (so for example teacher and students in
classroom, despite inequity of power, all have goals, I suppose). And these
goals can be misaligned, even mutually excluding. But I think there has
been some argument against the possibility of these students (or anybody in
relatively powerless position) having agency.
So what is the relationship between goals and agency? Can CHAT help us to
understand this?
Renee Hayes
University of Delaware
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Matusov [mailto:ematusov@UDel.Edu]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:24 AM
To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
Subject: RE: RE: cr&c
In addition to what Sarah wrote, Leont'ev (1981) found an interesting
Hegel's insight about the development of goal, "As Hegel correctly noted, an
individual 'cannot define the goal of his action until he has acted....'"
(p. 62)
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Woodward Beck [mailto:sarah.beck@nyu.edu]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:44 AM
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: RE: cr&c
>
> David,
> When I wrote that shared goals imply consciousness, I was thinking of
goals as described
> by Wertsch (1979, 1981) in an activity system. Goals are what give
direction to an activity,
> and according to Wertsch, Marx argued that the ability to set conscious
goals is part of what
> makes us human. So I was extrapolating from the level of activity to the
level of culture in
> my assumptions about the characteristics of a goal.
> But perhaps the definition of "goal" needs to be expanded at the level of
culture. What do
> you see as some examples of "unconscious" goals in an ideological, complex
society?
> --Sarah
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: david.preiss@yale.edu
> Date: Monday, March 22, 2004 1:06 am
> Subject: Re: RE: cr&c
>
> >
> > Hi Sarah,
> >
> > Why do shared goals imply consciousness? I think some shared goals
> > can
> > be quite unconscious, specially in complex (ideological) societies.
> >
> > David
> >
> > Quoting Sarah Woodward Beck <sarah.beck@nyu.edu>:
> >
> > > I agree with Judy - I would remove trust and shared goals. Trust,
> > > because it has strong moral connotations that don't seem to
> > belong in
> > > a basic definition of culture, and Shared Goals because this implies
> > > a consciousness (of goals) that participants in a culture may not
> > > possess. We are often not conscious of our participation in a
> > > culture as culture.
> > > --Sarah Beck
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Judy Diamondstone <jdiamondstone@clarku.edu>
> > > Date: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:57 pm
> > > Subject: RE: cr&c
> > >
> > > > > Establshing shared goals/visions?
> > > > > trust?
> > > > > division of labor?
> > > > > complementarity?
> > > > >
> > > > > Which of these things would remove from your own conception
> > of
> > > > culture?
> > > > SHAREDness of goals
> > > > Trust.
> > > >
> > > > What do you think?
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Mike Cole [mcole@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:38 PM
> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > Subject: re: cr&c
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I can see that those working to create activities where
> > > > > reflective practice
> > > > > is valued and implemented have good reason not to want to
> > > substitute
> > > > > culture into Bill's paragraph. I am, of course, speaking of
> > > > culture as
> > > > > (better, from) a particular perspective and it is polysemic.
> > > > Reflective> practice is also polysemic. Even the word
> > polysemic is
> > >
> > > > polysemic.>
> > > > > However, which of the following things is not characteristic of
> > >
> > > > culture> as understood in chat discourse:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am also uncomfortable about the substtution as I think
> > > > collaborative> reflection is a highly specific practice and there
> > >
> > > > are some important
> > > > > principles that givern it including the establishment of a
> > > shared
> > > > > vision or
> > > > > goal, the establishment of trust, division of labor,
> > > > complementarity, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Establshing shared goals/visions?
> > > > > trust?
> > > > > division of labor?
> > > > > complementarity?
> > > > >
> > > > > Which of these things would remove from your own conception
> > of
> > > > culture?> mike
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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