David,
When I wrote that shared goals imply consciousness, I was thinking of goals as described by Wertsch (1979, 1981) in an activity system. Goals are what give direction to an activity, and according to Wertsch, Marx argued that the ability to set conscious goals is part of what makes us human. So I was extrapolating from the level of activity to the level of culture in my assumptions about the characteristics of a goal.
But perhaps the definition of "goal" needs to be expanded at the level of culture. What do you see as some examples of "unconscious" goals in an ideological, complex society?
--Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: david.preiss@yale.edu
Date: Monday, March 22, 2004 1:06 am
Subject: Re: RE: cr&c
>
> Hi Sarah,
>
> Why do shared goals imply consciousness? I think some shared goals
> can
> be quite unconscious, specially in complex (ideological) societies.
>
> David
>
> Quoting Sarah Woodward Beck <sarah.beck@nyu.edu>:
>
> > I agree with Judy - I would remove trust and shared goals. Trust,
> > because it has strong moral connotations that don't seem to
> belong in
> > a basic definition of culture, and Shared Goals because this implies
> > a consciousness (of goals) that participants in a culture may not
> > possess. We are often not conscious of our participation in a
> > culture as culture.
> > --Sarah Beck
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Judy Diamondstone <jdiamondstone@clarku.edu>
> > Date: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:57 pm
> > Subject: RE: cr&c
> >
> > > > Establshing shared goals/visions?
> > > > trust?
> > > > division of labor?
> > > > complementarity?
> > > >
> > > > Which of these things would remove from your own conception
> of
> > > culture?
> > > SHAREDness of goals
> > > Trust.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mike Cole [mcole@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 1:38 PM
> > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > Subject: re: cr&c
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I can see that those working to create activities where
> > > > reflective practice
> > > > is valued and implemented have good reason not to want to
> > substitute
> > > > culture into Bill's paragraph. I am, of course, speaking of
> > > culture as
> > > > (better, from) a particular perspective and it is polysemic.
> > > Reflective> practice is also polysemic. Even the word
> polysemic is
> >
> > > polysemic.>
> > > > However, which of the following things is not characteristic of
> >
> > > culture> as understood in chat discourse:
> > > >
> > > > I am also uncomfortable about the substtution as I think
> > > collaborative> reflection is a highly specific practice and there
> >
> > > are some important
> > > > principles that givern it including the establishment of a
> > shared
> > > > vision or
> > > > goal, the establishment of trust, division of labor,
> > > complementarity, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Establshing shared goals/visions?
> > > > trust?
> > > > division of labor?
> > > > complementarity?
> > > >
> > > > Which of these things would remove from your own conception
> of
> > > culture?> mike
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
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