Dear everybody-
I have to admit that this time I agree with John. I said, "I HAVE TO admit"
because John and I argued A LOT in the last election, in which I was much
closer to Nate's position. From where I was (and is) "staying" politically I
did not see much difference between Gore and Bush. That is why I voted for
Nader. Well, not exactly. I traded my vote with my father who lived in
California where Gore was very strong. So, I voted for Gore in Pennsylvania
and my dad agreed to vote for Nader in California. Thus I can't be directly
blamed for Bushivates getting power but some people like me in Florida and
elsewhere can be blamed (plus, of course, the Supreme Court, plus
discrimination of black voters in Florida and elsewhere, and so on). But
indirectly, I am sharing the blame for what is going on now.
As a good pragmatist and as a good social studies teacher, John calls for
reflecting on and recursive learning from our past experiences. What did I
learn? I have learned that although the political difference between Gorate
and Bushivate networks is not very big from where I stand politically, it
does not mean that this, whatever small for me, difference cannot make a
difference in lives of people that I care about. I agree now that with
Gorists in power, there wouldn't have been the invasion of Iraq, huge tax
cut for the benefit of ultra rich, huge cut of social services for poor by
states, "no Mars left behind" program, losing the ERIC database, attacks on
the environment, the policy of preemptive strike, and so on. Nate, you are
right that many bad things would have also probably happened have Gorates
been in charge. But, they would have been different bad things and arguably
less harmful for people we care about.
So, John, back to your question, "what did I learn"? I have learned to
choose a lesser evil. As French say, "The better is an enemy of the good"
(at least in Russia we know this as a French proverb). If Donald Duck and
his gang is a lesser evil than Bushivats, - if one person whom I care about
would benefit from that choice, - I will vote for Don.
What do you think?
Eugene
PS If Gore were became the President or if instead of Bush the Kid the
President were Bush the Dad, I'd have probably still been with Nate now.
There would have been a different history lesson perhaps (e.g., that it is
important to promote more radical candidates and parties). Specific history
and specific context are matter for lessons and wisdom we learn.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John St. Julien [mailto:john@johnstjulien.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 1:18 AM
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: re internet and politics
>
> I am pretty sure I have heard this purity argument before. Recently.
> Where was that? When was that?....
>
> I'd bet few really believe that if Gore were president we'd be
> occupying Iraq following a war of naked aggression.
>
> Who stayed home rather than sully themselves? Who voted for the purer
choice?
>
> That could of worked out better.
>
> ---Sorry to be so far off the usual list focus and mood but .... I
> keeping on thinking history teaches. It must be the silly social
> studies teacher in me.
>
>
>
>
> >Well if your talking about Donald Rumsfield (he looks more like a
> >mouse though), I'm sure some NeoCons will join you.
> >
> >Part of me finds Dean's "message" attractive, but the problem is his
> >practice does not correlate. For example, he talks about health
> >care, but the plan is to the right of Clinton's. He is anti Iraq War
> >2, but does not support getting out. He has continually received
> >great ratings from the NRA. His views from gay rights onward take a
> >strong state rights perspective.
> >
> >As far as Political Compass, I have found it accurate after people
> >get used to the idea. I think its important that in the "anybody but
> >Bush" movement most the candidates fall into the authoritarian
> >Right quadrant.
> >
> >Judy, whoever the Dem candidate is you can be guaranteed, he will
> >move much farther to the right. I find myself wondering if Bore Gore
> >were Prez, what specifically would be different? My guess is not
> >much of substance.
> >
> >Personally, Kucinich is the only candidate that's worth the symbolic
> >act of voting. At least it could be done with a clear conscience and
> >outside the authoritarian right quadrant.
> >
> >The ISR had a very interesting article on The Other War Party, which
> >traces the history of the NeoCons from the Democratic Party onward.
> >
> >http://www.isreview.org/issues/33/dems&war.shtml
> >
> >N***
> >
> >
> >Judy Diamondstone wrote:
> >
> >>I can sympathize with those who are looking for 'the great liberal hope'
who
> >>feel disappointed with Dean, but I can't accept the relative ranking on
the
> >>"political compass' website. Dean attracted a lot of independent voters,
> >>because he came off as less ideological & more pragmatic than the
others. As
> >>for Kerry's status as 'most liberal' of the lot, here's a video I
received
> >>(from a Dean supporter):
> >>
> >>http://www.idiomstudio.com/mypov.htm
> >>
> >>I would vote for Donald Duck if he were the only one opposing george w.
-
> >>but how many others would join me?
> >>
> >>Judy
> >>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: N*** [mailto:vygotsky who-is-at nateweb.info]
> >>>Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 6:49 PM
> >>>To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>Subject: Re: re internet and politics
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>All he needed to do was tear off his shirt and start kicking someone in
> >>>the face.
> >>>
> >>>Funny thing is "working class" is not what comes to my mind with Dean.
> >>>Very few core supporters tend to be "working class" or minorities for
> >>>that matter.
> >>>
> >>>I find it kind of ironic that he is held out as the "great liberal
hope"
> >>>since his views are quite right of center. Political Compass
> >>>http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/usprimaries.html has
> >>> an interesting graph highlighting where the Dems are politically.
> >>>Sadly, most are bunched right near Bush.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Eugene Matusov wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Dear everybody-
> >>>>
> >>>>Dean's infamous yeargh speech after his somewhat poor
> >>>
> >>>performance in Iowa
> >>>
> >>>>reminded me wrestling. Thanks to my son, I had to watch wrestling for
> >>>>several years. Maybe because of this experience, I was not
> >>>
> >>>alienated by his
> >>>
> >>>>macho yeargh. He sounded like a wrestler, like Rick Flair (for those
who
> >>>>knows him). I wonder if people who watch wrestling have similar
> >>>
> >>>feelings...
> >>>
> >>>>Dean's yeargh, like wrestling, has gender and class flavor (back to
our
> >>>>discussion of emotions)... It is very working class male yeargh...
> >>>>
> >>>>What do you think?
> >>>>
> >>>>Eugene
> >>>>PS Several years ago my son designed a website for kids from
> >>>
> >>>Latin American
> >>>
> >>>>Center where I work. The site has been inactive for long time
> >>>
> >>>by now but you
> >>>
> >>>>may find a spirit of wrestling it captures...
> >>>>http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/kids.web/wrestling_welcome_page.htm
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>From: Bill Barowy [mailto:wbarowy@attbi.com]
> >>>>>Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 9:46 PM
> >>>>>To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>Subject: Re: re internet and politics
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On Saturday 24 January 2004 9:18 pm, N*** wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>exactly like it, I think I might settle on calling it "yeargh".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I thought it was my New England ear, but after listening carefully, I
> >>>>
> >>>>think
> >>>>
> >>>>>your spelling is better. I don't see the mp3 collection as a new
> >>>>
> >>>>phenomenon
> >>>>
> >>>>>-- creative mixes go back even further than the birth of techno, and
as
> >>>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>>hosting website proclaims, the mixes don't necessarily diss, but show
an
> >>>>>understanding of the personality as human. It's an
> >>>
> >>>enlightening website.
> >>>
> >>>>>Thanks to David!
>
>
> --
> 401 St. Charles St.
> Lafayette, La. 70501
>
> Land Line: (337) 269-0150
> Cell Phone: (337) 739-6118
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sun Feb 01 2004 - 01:00:10 PST