I knew this would happen if I started to read.
It's too bad Jay isn't available...
I think it's important to recognize that indexical meanings, no matter how
many accumulate, do not lead directly to symbolic ones, unless the
subject-finite RELATIONSHIP -- the means to EXCHANGE meanings -- the means
to dialogue, emerges. I think of this proto-grammar, the heart of grammar,
as a "mechanism" or "engine" (sorry that's the best I can do right now)
that generates more grammar.... hence, affording symbolic relatata... And I
also surmise that it's in our meaning-making that relations among strata
(not relations of generality but relations of construal, of symbolization,
of coding) matter -- i.e., it is through our meaning-making that we must
come to comprehend the material historical world. I'm not sure what I've
said but that's it for now
Judy
I'm back but off again
Judy
At 07:40 AM 7/6/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Ana,
>
>I get the impression that references are always contingent to the dialogue,
>perhaps more generally written "always contingent to the action". This makes
>sense in that to achieve the normative 'symbolic', by what is meant by
>'normative', each person in a collective references the same (identical)
thing.
> One might respond that it begs the question how each individual, having a
>unique ontogenetic trajectory, can determine and agree on what is the same in
>what each of them means. Perhaps it is not possible, except that we
pretend we
>know what each other means when acting and communicating. We act as if we
>agree on meanings -- taking culture for granted. When the actions and
>communications of another are discordant with what we believe, we react with
>what is in our toolbox of "discordance strategies" (of which many have been
>enacted through xmca).
>
>What I think this view of indexical-->symbolic progression is that it is
>necessary to look at ontogenetic and "mesogenetic" development
simultaneously.
>But ultimately it would seem that what is symbolic is in essence what
indexes
>people readily agree upon, and this is shaped by their history of
>co-development, which occurs as they participate jointly in activity. The
>collective movement towards tacit (and explicit) agreement, occurs not only
>through episodes of discordance (perhaps like cybernetic error functions,
>disagreement and tension but also puzzlement, curiousity, wonderment), and so
>also creatively.
>
>I seem to recall a video of children playing in a (pretend) kitchen that goes
>with the text "the development of children" in which children negotiate their
>roles and rules and who can do what.
>
>Will be lurking for the next few days -- other things are pressing.
>
>bb
>
>
>
>> A HUGE JUMP! Two jumps - indeed. One between the "indexical" (pointing to
>> something contingent to the dialogue) and "symbolic" ( pointing to
>> something outside this space and time).
>
>=====
>"One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from yourself
and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautiful."
>[Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]
>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Aug 01 2001 - 01:00:57 PDT