Re: [xmca] Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is choice

[Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>]

Martin --

Apologies for lurking, following by cryptic/petulant message.

The point being that the same action can, depending on what activity
system you're looking at it from, mean two very different things. And they
can be in conflict, ranging from a cool, subdued conflict, to a very hot
one. Specifically (since my interest lies in how people negotiated decent
conditions of work), someone can be doing a job for the purpose of earning
a living, and care not one whit about what the industry is (could be
weaving cloth, making bombs, dumping garbage pails in a restaurant,
grading papers). Or the person can be doing a job for the purpose of doing
the job. Most studies of the workplace assume that people at work are
working for the purpose that the firm/company/enterprise/industry is set
up for. When they overlook the possibility that two very different,
sometimes conflicting activities are taking place (an activity system
defined by motive/purpose), then they can't discern how people are
feeling, how they're learning to do the job, how they're managing their
effort, etc etc.

Thanks for asking.

Helena 

On 3/27/13 1:42 PM, "Martin Packer" <packer@duq.edu> wrote:

>Hi Helena,
>
>Which point are you referring to? There have been so many!
>
>Martin
>
>On Mar 27, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Hello -- Exactly my point in my MCA article on using AT to study work.
>> 
>> Helena Worthen
>> Hworthen@illinois.edu
>> 
>> On 3/22/13 8:40 AM, "Holodynski, Manfred"
>> <manfred.holodynski@uni-muenster.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>> 
>>> thank you very much for all your valued comments on my article. There
>>>are
>>> a lot of aspects already discussed and I have some difficulties to
>>>follow
>>> all lines of argumentation. Therefore, I would like to answer to the
>>> following:
>>> 
>>> 1. Emotions as psychological function within the macrostructure of
>>> activity.
>>> 
>>> As Andy claims it I get my Activity Theory from AN Leont'ev and I
>>>focused
>>> especially on his concept of macrostructure of activity and its levels
>>>of
>>> activity that is related to motives, actions that are related to goals
>>> and operations that are related to the conditions under which an action
>>> is given. And Andy gets precisely to the heart of it when he stated
>>>that
>>> my article needs to be read with attention to motivation and how the
>>> macrostructure of an activity is related to the motives and goals of an
>>> individual. One activity can be realized by different actions, and one
>>> action can realize different activities.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> May I quote Andy's words:
>>> 
>>> " Because motives are not given to immediate perception; they have to
>>>be
>>> inferred/learnt. Emotional expression and experience signal the
>>>success,
>>> failure, frustration, expectation, etc. of goals and motives for both
>>> participant/observers and the individual subject themself, emotion is
>>> tied up with motives and goals and therefore with the structure of an
>>> activity. One and the same action could be part of different ""actions
>>> activities (!) (MH)"". It is the emotions which signal (internally and
>>> externally) the success, etc., etc., that is, in an action's furthering
>>> an activity, and it is this which makes manifest and actual that
>>> connection between action and activity, for both the
>>>observer/participant
>>> and the individual subject.
>>> 
>>> So there is no metaphysics here. No hypothetical "states of mind", or
>>> intelligent infants, etc."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> a) Take the example of the opening of the window. That's the behavior.
>>> What's the goal?
>>> 
>>> b) Imagine the person is a leader and opens the window in order to
>>>greet
>>> his followers and to hold a speech. That's the goal. What is the
>>>activity?
>>> 
>>> c) If one look at the circumstances one can derive that the speech is a
>>> part of a political activity in order to celebrate the election
>>>victory.
>>> So, if the leader also feels pride and enthusiasm about the victory
>>>there
>>> is coincidence between the publically assigned meaning and the
>>>personally
>>> felt sense of the situation. However, it may also be possible that he
>>> doesn't feel pride but a great burden and he personally feels to be
>>> overloaded with the duties and future expectations. Then the societal
>>> meaning assigned by the followers to this situation and the personal
>>> sense assigned by the leader himself are not congruent. The leader
>>>framed
>>> this situation under an achievement perspective whether he is able to
>>> fulfill the leadership.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But, note when we talk about actions and activity, then we speak about
>>>an
>>> advanced level of activity e.g. in children or adults, but not in
>>>infants
>>> who start to have intentions but still not a mental image of a future
>>> state of affairs.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2. Differentiation between the basic level in infants and advanced
>>>level
>>> in older children:
>>> 
>>> - A young infant has not already established a goal-driven level of
>>> actions. In the first weeks one can observe the acquisition of first
>>> operations and of first expectations what should happen. But these
>>> expectations are not yet represented as a mental image about the
>>>desired
>>> future states. This is the product of the acquisition of a sign system
>>> which enables the person to evoke and  imagine a future state in the
>>>here
>>> and now and to start to strive for it. And for this starting point, not
>>> only to imagine different future states, but also to select one of them
>>> and to start to strive for it, emotional processes come into play that
>>> color one of the imagined future state e.g. in a state worth striving
>>>for
>>> and that mobilize the executive power to start striving for it.
>>> 
>>> However, the ability to form such notions of goals and to transform
>>>them
>>> into actions is not something that occurs automatically. It emerges in
>>>a
>>> long-drawn ontogenetic learning process in which the attainment of
>>>goals
>>> through actions is tried, tested, and increasingly optimized. Older
>>> children are
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So, for an understanding of my emotion concept the macrostructure of an
>>> activity is very decisive because I embedded emotions as a specific
>>> psychological function within the macrostructure of an activity.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Manfred
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Prof. Dr. Manfred Holodynski
>>> 
>>> Institut für Psychologie in Bildung und Erziehung
>>> 
>>> Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
>>> 
>>> Fliednerstr. 21
>>> 
>>> D-48149 Münster
>>> 
>>> +49-(0)-251-83-34311
>>> 
>>> +49-(0)-251-83-34310 (Sekretariat)
>>> 
>>> +49-(0)-251-83-34314 (Fax)
>>> 
>>> http://wwwpsy.uni-muenster.de/Psychologie.inst5/AEHolodynski/index.html
>>> 
>>> manfred.holodynski@uni-muenster.de
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Andy Blunden [mailto:ablunden@mira.net]
>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 22. März 2013 04:13
>>> An: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> Cc: Holodynski, Manfred
>>> Betreff: Re: Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is choice
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mike, Manfred gets his Activity Theory from AN Leontyev, rather than
>>> Engestrom's "systems of activity."
>>> 
>>> So actions and activities are defined by their goals and motives. So
>>> Manfred's article needs to be read with attention to motivation and how
>>> the structure of an activity is related to motives and goals. Because
>>> motives are not given to immediate perception; they have to be
>>> inferred/learnt. Emotional expression and experience signal the
>>>success,
>>> failure, frustration, expectation, etc. of goals and motives for both
>>> participant/observers and the individual subject themself, emotion is
>>> tied up with motives and goals and therefore with the structure of an
>>> activity. One and the same action could be part of different actions.
>>>It
>>> is the emotions which signal (internally and externally) the success,
>>> etc., etc., that is, in an action's furthering an activity, and it is
>>> this which makes manifest and actual that connection between action and
>>> activity, for both the observer/participant and the individual subject.
>>> 
>>> So there is no metaphysics here. No hypothetical "states of mind", or
>>> intelligent infants, etc.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It's all in there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Andy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> mike cole wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Andy - and here I was wondering why operation/action/activity were
>>> 
>>>> not prominent in Manfred's article. Where does he lay out the views in
>>> 
>>>> this note? Am I reading too superficially as usual? Seems important
>>> 
>>>> for me to get clear about!
>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Thursday, March 21, 2013, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>    Think of your illustration,Martin, about whether, in opening the
>>> 
>>>>    window, you were acting as a technician or moral leader. I.e., the
>>> 
>>>>    meaning of the action lies in the activity of which it is a part,
>>> 
>>>>    which is not immediately given. Manfred does not refer this to
>>> 
>>>>    "intention" or "belief". Manfred is quite specific that the
>>> 
>>>>    signalising and self-perception of an action in relation to an
>>> 
>>>>    activity - i.e., an action's being of this and not that activity -
>>> 
>>>>    is a function played by emotion. Concepts like internal state and
>>> 
>>>>    intention are derivative from operation/action/activity, not
>>> 
>>>>    fundamental.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>    Andy
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __________________________________________
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