Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groundbreaking discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!

[Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>]

RE:  So you are saying that what Vygotsky really wrote is derivative and what we read of him (which is revolutionary) is written by someone else unknown? --

"Unknown", Andy, is what you are suggesting, -- in contrast, I never claimed that the sources are "unknown" :).

Consider quote: 


The life and work of Lev Vygotsky
have increasingly become a focus for contemporary psychology's social
discourse - he constitutes an interesting case for the analysis of intellectual
interdependence (see Van der Veer and Valsiner, 1988) between scientists,
for a number of reasons. First, wide-ranging claims about the "genius"like
nature of Vygotsky have been made in recent decades - a good means of
advertising but perhaps not conducive to an understanding of the content
and implications of the ideas of the "genius". Secondly, with the burgeoning
of "neo-Vygotskian" fashions in contemporary psychology, the historical
focus of Vygotsky and his ideas has receded into the background (with some
notable exceptions; see Kozulin, 1990a). For instance, Vygotsky is credited
with "being 50 years ahead of his time", for ideas that he himself credited to
his predecessors of the 1890s and early 1900s. 

And then:


Of course, this discrepancy is
not surprising since the contemporary psychology of the 1990s is increasingly
becoming historically myopic. It now resembles a "factory of data production"
under the spell of conveniently "theory"-labeled fashions, most of
which merely reiterate common-sense knowledge (see Smedslund, 1978,
1979). The development of ideas about psychological issues has become
obscured by that feverish and highly compulsive activity, and impasses of
psychological thinking of the past become enthusiastically repeated in the
present. After all, if the current social consensus of psychologists is used to
determine the meaning of "progress" within that discipline, then what is
termed as being such is fully under the control of social estimations by
psychologists of the present who are guided by the fashions of the day.


van der Veer & Valsiner (1991). Understanding Vygotsky. A quest for synthesis

Download the whole 168 Mb book here: https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/handle/1887/10170


A very good book: the best written about the history of Vygotsky to date. Must read to anyone interested.


Good luck,

Anton



________________________________
 From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> 
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:53:33 PM
Subject: Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groundbreaking discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!
 
That's no good Anton. That site messes something awful with my computer, forcing me to allow pop-ups and look at their prizes, and won't let me have teh article until I have registered. A site which messes with my computer for just browsing is not going to get me registering.

So you are saying that what Vygotsky really wrote is derivative and what we read of him (which is revolutionary) is written by someone else unknown?

Andy

Anton Yasnitsky wrote:
> I guess presently the chapter can be found at scribd...
> 
> Right, here it is: http://www.scribd.com/doc/79482780/Yasnitsky-2011-Lev-Vygotsky-Philologist-and-Defectologist-Sociointellectual-Biography
> 
> AY
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> *To:* ablunden@mira.net; "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:12:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groundbreaking discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!
> 
> How about sending around a manuscript of your article, Anton? So that the
> ideas get wide dissemination and discussion.
> 
> mike
> 
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> 
> > OK, so let me summarise, Anton.
> > (1) You say that the central place of mediation by symbols and tools in
> > the development of human consciousness is something introduced by some
> > anonymous uncredited writer.
> > (2) I am well aware of the notions of unit of analysis, situation and
> > Gestalt used by the Gestaltists you mention and I find them quite inferior
> > to the notions I have learnt from who I thought was Vygotsky, so I have
> > another anonymous uncredited writer to thank for this.
> > (3) If you are saying that Vygotsky did not read German philosophy till
> > near the end of his life if at all, I am inclined to agree. Whoever it was
> > that I have been reading seem to have brilliantly extracted these insights
> > from reading Marx and discussions with 20th century writers.
> >
> > Andy
> > Anton Yasnitsky wrote:
> >
> >> Let's put somewhat aside the question if anybody can actually *discover*
> >> an *idea* or a *concept*: I tend to think that we rather *construct* and
> >> *introduce* them, like any other neologisms. Anyway, this is just a remark
> >> aside, let's get straight to the matter.
> >>
> >> I need to think if Vygotsky in fact ever said anything on "mediated
> >> action" (if anybody is aware of specific locus in any Vygotsky's text where
> >> he actually says "mediated action" I would greatly appreciate the reference
> >> to the source).
> >> As to the other two, I am inclined to look towards the Gestaltists,
> >> primarily Kurt Koffka along with such peripheral participants and
> >> fellow-tavellers of Gestaltpsychologie movement as Kurt Lewin and Kurt
> >> Goldstein as the guys who approximately one hundred seventeen times better
> >> and way earlier expressed pretty much the same ideas, but in slightly
> >> different terms than Vygotsky vaguely did with his "unit of analysis" and
> >> "social situation of development". I am not sure,  but I guess I briefly
> >> suggested this here:
> >>
> >> Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist and Defectologist, A
> >> Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury, D., & Wertheimer,
> >> M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology, (Vol. 7, pp.
> >> 109-134).
> >>
> >> Vygotsky, in turn, only started learning from the great Germans
> >> (Americans, Jews, etc.) when he died.
> >> Unfortunately, though, I am not so sure that these ideas have in fact
> >> revolutionized psychology, at least so as long as mainstream (i.e.,
> >> empirical, North American, ahistorical, non-cumulative, reductionist, etc.)
> >> psychology is concerned.
> >>
> >> Anton
> >>
> >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> >> ------------
> >> *From:* Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> >> *To:* Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com <mailto:the_yasya@yahoo.com>>; "eXtended Mind, Culture,
> >> Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:43:14 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groudbreaking
> >> discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!
> >>
> >> So Anton, to whom should we be attributing ideas like "unit of
> >> analysis", "social situation of development", "mediated action" which
> >> have revolutionised psychology, and we have been thinking were
> >> discoveries of Vygotsky? Is there someone else who should be credited?
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> Anton Yasnitsky wrote:
> >> > Indeed, thanks a lot to all those researchers, editors, translators,
> >> and other volunteers and enthusiasts who made this -- and will make several
> >> forthcoming  -- journal issues possible!!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > As to Vygotsky's archives, well, it is a little bit different. For
> >> instance, as one paper argues, on the contrary, archival materials of one
> >> of arguably Vygotsky's works were NOT preserved, and the Russian text of
> >> the work was blatantly retranslated (or just translated) into Russian from
> >> English (this was a much later copy that actually WAS preserved, or, for
> >> that matter, was NOT preserved either, but was "reconstructed" some time in
> >> the 1950s or 1960s).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yet again, as we know, the manuscript of yet another work, commonly
> >> believed to be a central work of Vygotsky, was NOT preserved either. The
> >> same holds for yet another allegedly most important Vygotsky's book.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > So, in sum, I would not be that thankful to those who have been in
> >> charge of keeping Vygotsky's archival stuff  alive and, for that matter,
> >> accessible.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Anton
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ______________________________**__
> >> >  From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
> >> > To: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com <mailto:the_yasya@yahoo.com> <mailto:the_yasya@yahoo.com <mailto:the_yasya@yahoo.com>>>;
> >> "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
> >> > Cc: Alexey Kuznetsov <alexey.math@gmail.com <mailto:alexey.math@gmail.com> <mailto:
> >> alexey.math@gmail.com <mailto:alexey.math@gmail.com>>**>; Ющенкова Дарья Викторовна <
> >> dashulya-psy@mail.ru <mailto:dashulya-psy@mail.ru> <mailto:dashulya-psy@mail.ru <mailto:dashulya-psy@mail.ru>>>**; Anton Yasnitsky <
> >> anton.yasnitsky@gmail.com <mailto:anton.yasnitsky@gmail.com> <mailto:anton.yasnitsky@gmail.**com<anton.yasnitsky@gmail.com <mailto:anton.yasnitsky@gmail.com>>>>;
> >> Мещеряков Борис Гурьевич <borlogic@yahoo.com <mailto:borlogic@yahoo.com> <mailto:borlogic@yahoo.com <mailto:borlogic@yahoo.com>>>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:04:02 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groudbreaking
> >> discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!
> >> > >
> >> > Thanks to all who carried out this work. Thanks also to those who kept
> >> the archival materials alive.
> >> > mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2012/3/21 Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com <mailto:the_yasya@yahoo.com> <mailto:
> >> the_yasya@yahoo.com <mailto:the_yasya@yahoo.com>>>
> >> >
> >> > A special issue of PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological issue has been
> >> released lately. This thematic multilingual issue combined a few studies on
> >> textology, chronology and historical development of  Vygotsky's works.
> >> Several highlights include:
> >> > >> - first ever rigorous historical reconstruction of the list of
> >> Vygotsky's major works and the chronology of their composition
> >> >>
> >> >> - the sensational finding: Vygotsky never wrote the "History of
> >> development of higher mental (psychological) functions" and "Tool and
> >> symbol (sign)" the way we know these texts in Russian now
> >> >>
> >> >> - a discussion of Vygotsky's " Tool and Sign" (alias "Tool and Sign"),
> >> i.e. the first half of what we all know as "Mind and Society" (1978,
> >> chapters 1-4): was Russian text translated from the English one, or the
> >> English text translated from Russian one, or both?
> >> >>
> >> >> - numerous fakes and falsifications in Vygotsky's various published
> >> works & the problem of reliability: is it the Vygotsky that we know or
> >> rather -- the Vygotsky that we DO NOT know?
> >> >>
> >> >> - full list of editorial interventions in the three editions of
> >> Vygotsky's "Thinking and speech" of 1934, 1956, & 1982
> >> >>
> >> >> - a historical, first ever republication of early Vygotsky's articles
> >> on art, theatre and literature of 1922: the unknown Vygotsky of his Gomel'
> >> period (1917-1924)
> >> >>
> >> >> All these and some other materials, in Russian, English, Portuguese,
> >> and French are available FREE, 24/7 online @ http://www.psyanima.ru/**
> >> journal/2011/4/index.php<http://www.psyanima.ru/journal/2011/4/index.php>
> >> >>
> >> >> The editorial team are presently considering publishing a follow-up
> >> issue of the journal that would build on these studies, so any
> >> >> queries, comments, suggestions, and even paper proposals (in virtually
> >> any language and of virtually any length) will be greatly appreciated!
> >> >> ______________________________**____________
> >> >> _____
> >> >> xmca mailing list
> >> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> >> >>
> >> >>  > ______________________________**____________
> >> > _____
> >> > xmca mailing list
> >> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> --
> >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> >> ------------
> >> *Andy Blunden*
> >> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
> >> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
> >> Book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1608461459/<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1608461459/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> > ------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > Book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1608461459/<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1608461459/>
> >
> > ______________________________**____________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> >
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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1608461459/

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