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Re: [xmca] "higher psychic function"

How about "culturally mediated" psychological functions? There is
discussion of this issue somewhere in Wertsch, "Voices of the mind" I
believe.
mike

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Rod Parker-Rees <
R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote:

> I wonder whether there is any way of sidestepping the value system which
> is attached to HMF by the use of the word 'higher'. This seems to me to
> bring along Piagetian connotations of progress towards the rarefied air of
> the snow covered summits of formal operational thinking, away from the
> 'swampy lowlands' of more parallel, thick processes. 'Thin mental
> functions' would be no good - but what about 'lean mental functions'?
>
> All the best,
>
> Rod
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Huw Lloyd
> Sent: 13 February 2012 19:47
> To: Vera John-Steiner; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] "higher psychic function"
>
> On 13 February 2012 18:17, Vera John-Steiner <vygotsky@unm.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I think "mediatory" is a very awkwars term and it requires quite a bit
> > of knowledge about CHAT. Integrated (see David's note ) psychological
> > functions may work better, or possibly integrated psychological
> > processes. V's point was that "higher" psychological functions
> > required the unification of diverse streams of learning, culture and
> > development.
> >
>
> Though integrated begs the question of how in particular, and doesn't
> relate clearly to qualitative change.
>
> HMF is simple to say and has a certain mystique.  :)
>
> Huw
>
>
> > Vera
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Huw Lloyd"
> > <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 9:53 AM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] "higher psychic function"
> >
> >
> > On 13 February 2012 16:21, Colette Murphy <c.a.murphy@qub.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >  Hugh
> >> Thanks a lot for your reasoning. May I just explain that I was
> >> worried that 'higher psychic function' might sound too abstract and
> >> psychological for many science educators (including myself). Thus,
> >> whilst your suggestion makes perfect sense, I fear that it may also
> >> suffer from being too abstract / psychological for my current
> >> purpose. Can you make it more concrete perhaps?
> >>
> >>
> > Well it is more concrete, in the Marxian sense.
> >
> > Really, I would say this hinges on your reference to "scientists".   If
> > they are scientists they should know, or not be shy of knowing, what a
> > homology (structural comparison) is.  That a term like mediation
> > addresses the phenomena as a scientific system, whereas 'higher' is
> > indeed abstract and removed (but familiar from the perspective of
> > other psychological theories).
> >
> > If a term is introduced that is not familiar, then they're atleast
> > made aware that the subject may deal with unfamiliar things, rather
> > than assimilating them (in the Piagetian sense) to their current
> understanding.
> > So "Higher" may suffice, for some, from an outside perspective but it
> > points in inappropriate ways.  "Mediatory" is more precise but points
> > to the unknown, which is also truthful to their understanding.
> >
> > Huw
> >
> >
> >  Thanks a million
> >> Colette
> >>
> >> Dr Colette Murphy
> >> Senior Lecturer
> >> School of Education
> >> 69 University St
> >> Queen's University
> >> Belfast BT7 1HL
> >>
> >> tel: 02890975953
> >>
> >> "Why is it, in spite of the fact that teaching by pouring in,
> >> learning by passive absorption, are universally condemned, that they
> >> are still so entrenched in practice?"
> >>
> >>         John Dewey Democracy in Education 1916, Page 46
> >> ______________________________**__________
> >> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> >> Behalf Of Huw Lloyd [huw.softdesigns@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: 13 February 2012 16:08
> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >> Subject: Re: [xmca] "higher psychic function"
> >>
> >> On 13 February 2012 15:57, Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> >> <bella.kotik@gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > Colette asked for  a concept  "that it be best
> >> > read/understood/accepted
> >> by
> >> > educationalists (more specifically, science education researchers)
> >> > in such a case  it seems that  "Extension of psychological
> >> > mediatory function" does not fit the context Bella Kotik-.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Because.... ?
> >>
> >> Huw
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Huw Lloyd
> >> > <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
> >> > >wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On 13 February 2012 12:09, Bella Kotik-Friedgut <
> >> bella.kotik@gmail.com
> >> > > >wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >  Dear Colette my off-list note returned rejected by your server,
> so:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >  I use "higher mental functions" or sometimes "higher
> >> > > > psychological functions", but the first is preferable.
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Colette Murphy <
> >> c.a.murphy@qub.ac.uk
> >> > > > >wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Dear All
> >> > > > > I'd be very interested to hear your views on how to
> >> > edit/reword/rewrite
> >> > > > > the phrase "higher psychic function" in relation to
> >> > > > > Vygotsky's CH
> >> > > theory
> >> > > > so
> >> > > > > that it be best read/understood/accepted by educationalists
> >> > > > > (more specifically, science education researchers)?
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Perhaps it would be better to use a term that pointed to the > >
> >> phenomena,
> >> > > such as "Extension of psychological mediatory function".  "Higher"
> >> > relates
> >> > > the phenomena to other psychological theories but points away
> >> > > from the phenomena -- one is left considering why one function is
> >> > > higher than another whilst embedding the ideas in an
> >> > > (unnecessary) analogical
> >> > framework
> >> > > of "height = abstraction" or "higher as in high church" in which
> >> > > case
> >> one
> >> > > is even further removed from a precise formulation using a > >
> >> metaphorical
> >> > > frame.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > I'm happy to engage off-list
> >> > > > > if this query is better treated that way.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > This is clearly on-topic in many ways.
> >> > >
> >> > > Kind regards,
> >> > > Huw
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > > Thanks a million
> >> > > > > Colette
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Dr Colette Murphy
> >> > > > > Senior Lecturer
> >> > > > > School of Education
> >> > > > > 69 University St
> >> > > > > Queen's University
> >> > > > > Belfast BT7 1HL
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > tel: 02890975953
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > "Why is it, in spite of the fact that teaching by pouring in,
> >> > learning
> >> > > by
> >> > > > > passive absorption, are universally condemned, that they are
> >> > > > > still
> >> so
> >> > > > > entrenched in practice?"
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >          John Dewey Democracy in Education 1916, Page 46
> >> > > > > ______________________________**__________
> >> > > > > ______________________________**____________
> >> > > > > _____
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> >> > ______________________________**____________
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