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Re: [xmca] Current edition of Theory & Psychology
- To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
- Subject: Re: [xmca] Current edition of Theory & Psychology
- From: Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:47:06 -0800
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So then it is the "projects" that are fluid?
i.e., they seep into different configurations of persons and swish around
in our social worlds?
-greg
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> As long ago as 1848 Marx said "all that is solid melts into air", and I do
> think this is the number one problem of our day. But actually I think it
> misses the point to ask if "it will be even harder today to try to find
> bonds that 'interlock individual choices in collective projects and
> actions.'" The destruction of the fabric of social life by neoliberalism
> *is* a problem, but the point is that projects *are* that fabric.
>
> It is not a quesiton of "political actions of human collectivities" but
> rather that instead of "collectivities" which are pre-formed groups of
> people which then decide to do actions, but on the contrary groups and the
> bonds which tie them are the *product of projects*. The fabric itself is
> projects. "Project" is the unit of analysis, not an abstraction formed by
> adding aims and actions to groups.
>
> Andy
>
> Greg Thompson wrote:
>
>> Andy (and others interested in projects/systems of activity/living
>> artifacts/etc.),
>>
>> And I think Zygmunt Bauman (in Liquid Modernity), when speaking of
>> melting in late modernity of previously solid social forms of life, puts a
>> particularly sharp point on my question (and yours?):
>>
>> "The solids whose turn has come to be thrown into the melting pot and
>> which are in the process of being melted at the present time, the time of
>> fluid modernity, are the bonds which interlock individual choices in
>> collective projects and actions - the patterns of communication and
>> co-ordination between individually conducted life policies on the one hand
>> and political actions of human collectivities on the other." (p. 6).
>>
>> This suggests that it will be even harder today to try to find bonds that
>> "interlock individual choices in collective projects and actions." This
>> takes it a step farther back from the projects to: How can we re-form these
>> bonds?
>> Or maybe we need a new way of conceiving of the project and of "projects"
>> altogether? Fluid and ephemeral projects that flow about, mix with, seep
>> into, and spread out?
>>
>> How to do this?
>> -greg
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
>> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Greg, the notion of Recognition demonstrated in Hegel's
>> Philosophy of Right I fully embrace, particularly because it is
>> realised through a concept of mediation, rather than as an
>> alternative to mediation, as it is found in some modern writing.
>> And yes, I see this idea as to be realised through the idea of the
>> formation of collaborative projects, rather than "groups" and
>> associations.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> Greg Thompson wrote:
>>
>> As for the centrifugal forces that hold these entities
>> together (whether
>> you call them "systems of activity" or "projects"), I want to
>> humbly add
>> the importance of the Hegelian notion of "recognition." It
>> seems to me that
>> one of the critical functions of these entities is to provide
>> recognition
>> for individuals - to consummate them (to use Bakhtin's
>> language). With the
>> liquidity of identity that Ivan speaks of in modernity, it is
>> these
>> entities that provide for the moments of recognition that hold
>> together our
>> own selves as identities that can act agentively. And this is
>> important.
>>
>> In Philosophy of Right, Hegel introduces the idea and
>> importance of
>> "corporations." These serve important functions of providing
>> recognition (a
>> give and take between individual and group), but also
>> practical matters
>> like distribution of resources and the development of individual's
>> abilities. Isn't this quite similar to what is behind the
>> ideas being
>> discussed here? Andy?
>>
>> Here is a quote from Hegel's Lectures on Philosophy of Right
>> that speaks to
>> the obligations of wealthy in a "corporation" (really more of
>> a "trade
>> union" or something like that, but def. not the "corporation"
>> that we speak
>> of today):
>>
>>
>> “But in the corporation the individual has his true
>> consciousness and here
>> he has a genuine noble opportunity to acquire honor. In the
>> corporation the
>> corruption of wealth is set aside…. In the corporation wealth
>> is no longer
>> an end in itself. He has duties in this circle…. Here he
>> becomes something
>> through the way he applies his wealth for the sake of his
>> cooperative
>> association.”
>> H has much more to say about the importance of recognition for
>> the poor as
>> well due to their obligations to the corporation (whether or
>> not this is
>> built into the collaboration between TCLC and UCSD is a
>> difficult thing to
>> address. I think the families at TCLC have obligations to TCLC
>> but their
>> obligations and gift-giving to UCSD are not clear - this
>> despite Mike's
>> insistence upon them to the UCSD audience! The apparent (to most)
>> one-sidedness of this kind of gift-giving creates a one sided
>> moment of
>> recognition where UCSD always has the upper hand (see M. Mauss
>> on "no free
>> gifts").
>>
>> All of this speaks to an important issue in the U.S., namely
>> the Grand
>> Canyon that exists between rich and poor. The critical
>> question in the U.S.
>> is: where will such "corporations" come from? Where can the
>> rich and poor
>> cooperatively come together in a land that is literally
>> structured by
>> income - where how much you make determines where you live?
>> Communities
>> here are de facto segregated by income. (yes, there are some
>> exceptions to
>> this rule).
>>
>> I think the TCLC partnership provides a means for this kind of
>> (temporary)
>> creation of community (corporation) that crosses income lines.
>> Unfortunately, most of what makes up the "corporation", i.e., the
>> undergrads, is rather fleeting. Twice a week for 10 weeks in
>> and out. And
>> folks at LCHC are clearly concerned about the value of this
>> for the TCLC
>> kids. It is sometimes hard not to think that the undergrads
>> get more out of
>> those 10 weeks than the TCLC kids do. But, even if this is the
>> case, it is
>> eye opening for those often privileged undergrads. And it is
>> hard to
>> imagine anywhere in the U.S. where the building of cross-income
>> corporations is being done any better (Occupy Wall Street has
>> very mixed
>> results in this regard, For a critique of the middle-class
>> white elitism of
>> OWS, see: http://www.voxunion.com/?p=**4592<http://www.voxunion.com/?p=4592>
>> ).
>>
>> -greg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Ivan Rosero <irosero@ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:irosero@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I can see the reason for the excitement, and as I've come
>> of age at LCHC
>> over the last few years, it is this issue --what to call,
>> how to frame
>> analytically and explore methodologically, and what
>> theoretical
>> characterization to give these "meso zones"-- that has
>> been the most
>> salient issue for me.
>>
>> If it is true that identity is liquid, and we move from
>> one identity
>> instantiation to another, then there must be accompanying
>> socio-material
>> formations within which such identities can be had while being
>> simultaneously porous and loose enough to allow relatively
>> unproblematic
>> entry/exit. No doubt that there are longer-lived
>> structuring structures
>> within which, and relative to which, these meso-scale
>> formations come to
>> life, but those are not the proximal site of interest
>> here. Further, those
>> meso-scale formations that result from purposeful (and
>> vulnerable) coming
>> together without any guarantee of anything, are special
>> indeed.
>>
>> I fear the abstract here, but I will say at least that
>> these things, for
>> me, are a kind of prolepsis engine, formations through
>> which different
>> possibilities of how future arrangements might be
>> organized are tried out
>> in vivo, with all the complexities of the real thing
>> because, well, they
>> are the real thing!
>>
>> The lack of clear-cut language is not surprising, because
>> at the moment the
>> pull inward that participants undergo around these
>> collaborative
>> partnerships, in my experience, surfaces as an ethical
>> aesthetic which does
>> not yet enjoy the clarity of a full blown political
>> program of action.
>> There might even be more than a little fatigue with the
>> latter, and more
>> of a desire to explore different ways of being together
>> that do not require
>> (and may die as soon as these are reached) clear
>> categories and conceptual
>> pronouncements.
>>
>> ivan
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Andy Blunden
>> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Eugene Matusov has an article in Outlines on the topic
>> of the
>> sustainability of these projects:
>> http://ojs.statsbiblioteket.**
>> dk/index.php/outlines/article/****view/2662<
>>
>> http://ojs.statsbiblioteket.**dk/index.php/outlines/article/**
>> view/2662<http://ojs.statsbiblioteket.dk/index.php/outlines/article/view/2662>
>> >where
>> he says: "The success of our after-school partnership
>> between a
>>
>> community center and our university's School of
>> Education does not
>> necessarily require ... a common vision between
>> partners or even
>>
>> compatible
>>
>> visions." I would welcome comments on this view.
>>
>> Also, what is the story with the Laboratory School at
>> UCLA?
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> Andy Blunden wrote:
>>
>>
>> By "crisis," Ivan, I had in mind just the kind of
>> situation you describe
>> in southern San Diego.
>>
>> As I reported to Mike at the time, when I read
>> "Cultural Psychology" a
>> few years ago, I got really excited, not so much
>> because of the specific
>> teaching and learning methods that were going to
>> be used, but rather
>>
>> that -
>>
>> like the climax of a detective novel - Mike had
>> identified the culprit,
>>
>> the
>>
>> research problem that lay at the heart of problems
>> of poverty and
>> illiteracy in developed countries - /how is it
>> possible to sustain a
>> project/? what characterises a /sustainable
>> project/? This revelation
>>
>> was
>>
>> crucial in my coming to the conclusion that the
>> molar unit of analysis
>>
>> for
>>
>> CHAT had to be the /collaborative project/, athe
>> conclusion which I
>>
>> drew in
>>
>> my book published earlier this year, "An
>> Interdisciplinary Theory of
>> Activity."
>>
>> This did not mean of course that I had the answer
>> - Heavens! a concrete
>> answer to teh question of what sustains a
>> collaborative project is the
>> answer to all the problems of modernity. It is a
>> clear definition, in my
>> view, of the problem, the "germ cell" for an
>> understanding of modern
>>
>> social
>>
>> life. It is what really needs to be studied.
>>
>> "Collaborative project" is not just a special
>> topic or one choice for
>> making interventions, because (1) "Project," in my
>> view, is a much
>>
>> better
>>
>> way of concieving of the unit of social life than
>> "system of activity."
>>
>> In
>>
>> particular, the relation between the so-called
>> object and "system." For
>>
>> a
>>
>> project, the aim is not something separate which
>> gets added to the
>>
>> system
>>
>> of activity, but is /immanent in the project
>> itself/. It is emergent.
>>
>> It is
>>
>> "realised." (2) "Collaboration" is the
>> fundamental, normative
>>
>> relationship
>>
>> between people of modern life. So it is an
>> adequate definition of what
>>
>> we
>>
>> need to be studying when we do research into human
>> life. We need to
>> understand collaboration. But fairly few CHAT
>> researchers (let alone
>>
>> anyone
>>
>> else) make this explicit and upfront.
>> Collaboration is only possible if
>> there is a project to collaborate on and all
>> projects are collaborative.
>> Concepts originate as the immanent realised aims
>> of projects. So
>> collaborative projects form the units of our
>> psychic life just as they
>>
>> are
>>
>> the units of our social life. So as a unit of
>> /analysis/, collaborative
>> projects reflect collaborative projects as the
>> *real* unit of social
>>
>> life.
>>
>> So you can understand how excited I was to read
>> your article in /Theory
>>
>> &
>>
>> Psychology/!
>> Andy
>>
>> Ivan Rosero wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well, bankruptcies can still make more than a
>> few very rich, so the
>>
>> "we"
>>
>> and "our" in this building of habitable
>> imaginaries presupposes a prior
>> set
>> of other imaginaries through to come together
>> anew, and perhaps
>> differently, even if we think we know each
>> other --or, in other words,
>>
>> to
>>
>> give each other space to be other things, to
>> be strangers in creative
>> ways
>> in order to have any hope of reinventing and
>> in*forming what we do in
>> such
>> a way to make it more hospitable.
>>
>> As it happens, one tendril that continues to
>> pass through Town and
>> Country,
>> but is now much more active elsewhere in
>> southeast San Diego, is a
>>
>> strong
>>
>> connection to the food system change movement,
>> which another graduate
>> student at LCHC is exploring after having
>> dwelt for a while at T&C.
>>
>> Here
>>
>> is one of its core members, Diane Moss (quoted in
>> http://www.voiceofsandiego.****
>> org/people/q_and_a/article_**
>> cde3547e-f6b1-11e0-bfba-****001cc4c03286.html<
>>
>> http://www.voiceofsandiego.**org/people/q_and_a/article_**
>> cde3547e-f6b1-11e0-bfba-**001cc4c03286.html<http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/people/q_and_a/article_cde3547e-f6b1-11e0-bfba-001cc4c03286.html>
>>
>> )
>> who we know personally, answering a few
>> questions in a way that
>> concretizes
>> the shape of a few new imaginaries that we
>> here at LCHC have been drawn
>> into:
>>
>>
>> *What happened when you came back from that
>> workshop in 2008?*
>>
>> I started seeing empty lots and seeing they
>> could be used for other
>> purposes. I saw that we probably had the
>> ability to grow our own food.
>>
>> I bet on any block in southeastern San Diego,
>> somebody's growing
>> something
>> in their backyard: collard greens, corn. We
>> started looking at how we
>> could
>> take that talent and start having
>> conversations about collective
>>
>> growing
>>
>> or
>> community gardens. Even though we didn't use
>> the term "food desert" at
>> that
>> time, we talked about why we didn't have the
>> same markets everyone else
>> has.
>>
>> *Why didn't you like "food desert"?*
>>
>> I thought desert meant nothing — that you had
>> nothing to build on. I
>> said,
>> well, we've got people who grow things. We're
>> not starting from
>>
>> scratch.
>>
>> But I embraced it when I became familiar with
>> another definition: that
>> there are more fast food outlets than fresh
>> food outlets.
>>
>> *You hadn't thought about access to good food
>> in this community as a
>> problem before 2008?*
>>
>> Southeastern San Diego always gets tagged as a
>> community with lots of
>> problems. So here was another negative tag
>> people put on this
>>
>> community.
>>
>> I
>> saw that we didn't have the resources we
>> needed, but I didn't think of
>>
>> it
>>
>> in terms of a food desert.
>>
>> *What have been the biggest challenges to
>> getting people involved?*
>>
>> People say yes, we should have gardens. But
>> it's difficult for people
>>
>> to
>>
>> change their habits.
>>
>> *How do you change habits?*
>>
>> It takes time. Neighbors talking to neighbors.
>> People taking a chance
>>
>> to
>>
>> do
>> something different.
>>
>> -------
>> LCHC has been fortunate beyond any expectation
>> to have entered into
>>
>> this
>>
>> new collaboration and the mesh of actors it
>> pulls together.
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Larry Purss
>> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My response to this thread is an extension
>> of the notion of
>> "ambivalence"
>> at the heart and soul of all social
>> imaginaries.
>> It was mentioned that the motivating force
>> to "keep going" without
>> clarity
>> of intention or goals is the "felt sense"
>> of social BANKRUPTCY
>>
>> [economic
>>
>> metaphor] in the current social imaginary.
>> Zygmunt Bauman uses the
>>
>> very
>>
>> extreme metaphor of "waste" in his 2004
>> book to stir the ambivalence
>>
>> at
>>
>> the
>> center of our current social imaginary.
>> Ingold's article I recently
>> posted
>> captured the 12 century social imaginary
>> where walking, texts,
>> architecture, discourse, and contemplation
>> were all manifestations of
>>
>> a
>>
>> single ontology. All these objects
>> expressed a social imaginary that
>>
>> did
>>
>> not have some of the object "representing"
>> the "underlying" social
>> imaginary but rather were ALL immanebt
>> manifestations of the SAME
>>
>> social
>>
>> imaginary.
>>
>> Modernity [the tension between
>> enlightenment and romanitic
>>
>> hermeneutical
>>
>> ideas/ideals] also may have an
>> encompassing social imaginary that has
>>
>> a
>>
>> fundamental rupture [ambivalence] in the
>> notion of "representation" as
>> expressing some "underlying" reality
>> [realization] when in actuality the modern
>> walks, texts, architecture,
>> discourses and contemplations are
>> expressions of a monolithic social
>> imaginary.
>> Bauman's analysis of modernity [he is an
>> "exile" from the holocaust]
>>
>> has
>>
>> situated ambivalence at the heart of ALL
>> social imaginaries when
>> realized
>> express "order" or "structure" which
>> requires LIMITING formations.
>> This is
>> the core idea of sociology. Baumans
>> emancipatory vision for
>> sociological
>> imagination [in which he generates
>> multiple metaphors] is to explicate
>> the
>> ambivalence at the heart of modernity
>> leading to social bankruptcy. It
>> is
>> the reality of this ambivalence in our
>> current modern social imaginary
>> where Bauman locates hope and the
>> possibility for emancipation from
>>
>> the
>>
>> "waste lands".
>> Bauman purposely is exploring the power of
>> the metaphor of "waste" to
>> grasp
>> the desolation of our current
>> arrangements. For Bauman the metaphor of
>> "waste" as the by-product of our
>> "productions" in our "garden
>>
>> contexts"
>>
>> [another metaphor which the Nazi's used to
>> create a social imaginary
>> where
>> Jews were "weeds" in the garden] is
>> grasping the fundamental
>> ambivalence
>> at the heart of our social bankruptcy.
>> For Bauman and many others who are
>> searching for a new orientation in
>> our
>> globalized planetary social imaginary the
>> metaphor of "the suffering
>> stranger" travelling in the waste lands is
>> the moral calling
>>
>> requiring a
>>
>> response as a growing "response-ability"
>> as a "skill" developing
>>
>> within
>>
>> a
>> "new commons".
>> We need new "practises" and new "texts"
>> and also new discourses and
>>
>> new
>>
>> forms of contemplation. However, I'm
>> wondering how central to
>> transcending
>> our current social imaginary, which is now
>> a wasteland, are new forms
>>
>> of
>>
>> architecture which express the yearning to
>> respond to the suffering
>> stranger.
>>
>> In summary, the larger contexts being
>> explored may be
>>
>> cultural-semiotic
>>
>> imaginaries that must become realized
>> within a new commons which must
>>
>> be
>>
>> in*formed to "hold" the suffering stranger
>> in our midst [difference
>>
>> and
>>
>> alterity and weeds and waste as the
>> ambivalence at the heart of the
>> modern
>> vision of the garden]
>>
>> Accountability, measurement, statistics,
>> as our current social
>> imaginary of
>> cultural and social "order" at its heart
>> has the cavity of the
>>
>> suffering
>>
>> stranger that is now calling for a
>> response and a new cultural and
>> social
>> order in a new commons which must be
>> in*formed as our response-ability
>> to
>> the call of the other.
>>
>> Bauman's notion of "waste" and "waste
>> lands" as by-products of our
>> globalized social imaginary calls for an
>> alternative social imaginary
>> that
>> exists in the ambivalence at the heart of
>> our current world order.
>>
>> Larry
>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Ivan
>> Rosero <irosero@ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:irosero@ucsd.edu>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Arturo, two things coincide for me in
>> reading your email: 1) I've
>>
>> been
>>
>> working for the last 4 years in the
>> same collaboration that
>> Lecusay,Downing-Wilson,Cole have
>> written about, and 2) I too share
>>
>> the
>>
>> following concern:
>>
>> ----
>> CHAT keeps operating with a process
>> and methodological
>> ontology whereby the individual and
>> the social are inseparable but
>> does not provide a clear cut language
>> of description of how the
>>
>> social
>>
>> structure shapes activity or, to put
>> it in Seeger's terms, how power
>> shapes discourse (and consciousness
>> and identy).
>> ----
>>
>> As the authors have described, the
>> community setting in which this
>> latest
>> of LCHC's projects has unfolded does
>> not permit even the relatively
>> loose
>> structures that were the hallmarks of
>> previous 5D projects --this is
>>
>>
>>
>> where
>>
>>
>>
>> the ad-hoc stumbling upon interesting
>> things to do together is such
>>
>> an
>>
>> important component of the dual sense
>> of "appropriation". In the
>> social
>> space that has been created between
>> LCHC and Town and Country there
>>
>>
>>
>> exists
>>
>>
>>
>> (as I have experienced it over the
>> last four years) an enduring
>>
>>
>>
>> liminality
>>
>>
>>
>> that refuses to come to closure
>> --neither LCHC participants,
>>
>> including
>>
>>
>> grad
>>
>>
>>
>> students, staff, and undergraduate
>> students, nor T&C participants
>>
>> have
>>
>> arrived at any definite position vis a
>> vis what we are doing
>>
>> together.
>>
>>
>> The
>>
>>
>>
>> kids get older, new ones arrive, some
>> teens have left, club and group
>> structures change, entire families
>> move out. UCSD's side of the
>>
>> story
>>
>> is
>> more predictable in the institutional
>> sense of allowing year-on-year
>> planning of classes and recruitment of
>> students, as well as, of
>>
>> course,
>>
>>
>> the
>>
>>
>>
>> staying power of UCSD as a much longer
>> running process than the
>> collaboration itself. But this can
>> only explain the brute sense of
>>
>> our
>>
>> continued presence, one which would be
>> impossible to impose in any
>> case,
>>
>>
>>
>> so
>>
>>
>>
>> that we still have to try and explain
>> the delicate sense of our
>> continued
>> presence --what is happening in the
>> space of this
>> cross-cultural/cross-****institutional
>> intersection that keeps pulling
>>
>>
>>
>> together
>>
>>
>>
>> (in a delicate way) such a
>> heterogenous amalgam of participants --a
>> constant churn of undergraduate
>> buddies, a more stable set of grad
>> students, a constant, but slowly
>> changing, stream of kids, Ms. V.,
>>
>> and
>>
>>
>> the
>>
>>
>>
>> few community parents that regularly
>> lend a hand?
>>
>> You and Andy have said that there must
>> be some kind of crisis, and
>>
>> this
>>
>>
>> may
>>
>>
>>
>> be so, but if this is what is allowing
>> the participants to come
>> together
>> anew, it is not the kind of crisis
>> that can be compared to, say,
>>
>> Occupy
>>
>> Wall Street, or Greece, or the Arab
>> Spring. It might be that I lack
>> the
>> requisite social imagination, but the
>> way I see it, what is special
>> about
>> this collaboration is that it holds
>> together without disclosing to
>>
>> its
>>
>> participants directly how this is
>> happening. We have been at it for
>> four
>> years, and it isn't obvious to me why,
>> as a T&C elder says, we "keep
>>
>> on
>>
>> keeping on". This is especially true
>> in light of severe, and
>> recurrent,
>> frustrations on every side. For
>> example, in the absence of UCSD
>>
>>
>>
>> students,
>>
>>
>>
>> homework does not get done nearly as
>> regularly as when they are there
>> --this creates a huge problem for Ms.
>> V, who must still try to
>>
>> satisfy
>>
>>
>> this
>>
>>
>>
>> community need in our absence.
>> Sometimes we at LCHC find ourselves
>>
>> at
>>
>>
>> odds
>>
>>
>>
>> with local customs and decisions, to
>> which we nevertheless submit in
>>
>>
>>
>> order
>>
>>
>>
>> to keep on keeping on. But where are
>> we keeping on to? (Especially
>> without access to clear-cut language
>> with which to explain any of
>> this!)
>>
>> So, these kinds of open-ended
>> interactional spaces elicit from their
>> participants a degree of patience that
>> is rarely seen anywhere --more
>> or
>> less equally distributed! Southeast
>> San Diego, where T&C is located,
>> is
>> not unique in all the ways that its
>> inhabitants are systematically
>> marginalized, and it is a fact that
>> local community organizers (I've
>> been
>> at some of their meetings) look on
>> UCSD and charitable institutions
>> with
>> very suspicious eyes. In the face of
>> these realities, mutual
>>
>>
>>
>> appropriation
>>
>>
>>
>> is one factor, but not a wholly
>> explanatory one for the loose
>> holding-together that is going on here.
>>
>> Whatever the answers are, it is
>> impossible for me to conceive of a
>> satisfying explanation that does not
>> include affective-imaginative
>> dimensions. The way I see it, the
>> mystery here is not how
>>
>>
>>
>> power/structure
>>
>>
>>
>> shapes discourse/activity, it is why
>> this collaboration holds in the
>> face
>> of what would normally be
>> insurmountable difficulties. Good
>> will and
>> patience all around? Maybe, but this
>> only pushes the question deeper
>>
>>
>>
>> into
>>
>>
>>
>> the affective-imaginative life of this
>> collaboration.
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Andy
>> Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Continuing my sharing of the
>> current edition of Theory & Psyhology,
>> attached are scans of Deborah
>> Downing-Wilson, Robert Lecusay and
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Cole's paper (which I have been so
>> excited about) and the first 16
>>
>>
>>
>> pages
>>
>>
>> of
>>
>>
>>
>> Yrjo Engestrom's paper (I have
>> omitted the case study) which is a
>>
>>
>>
>> concise
>>
>>
>> synopsis of his current views on
>> activity and concepts.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> Andy Blunden wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That's a very interesting
>> series of points, Arturo!
>> Could I just ask you to
>> elaborate a little on what you
>> meant by
>>
>> "the
>>
>> unconscious in sign-making"
>> and "the problem of fetishism
>> of the
>>
>>
>>
>> sign."
>>
>>
>> I guess that you are right that in
>> almost any social context (the US
>>
>> included I suspect), the kind
>> of project that Mike writes
>> about can
>>
>>
>>
>> only be
>>
>>
>> implemented by surruptitiously
>> moving the goal posts set by the
>>
>>
>> recognised
>>
>>
>> authorities, by a kind of
>> subversion, making use of openings
>> created
>>
>>
>> by
>>
>>
>> manifest social crisis.
>>
>> As I'm sure you know, I am in
>> agreement with your critique
>> of the
>>
>>
>>
>> failure
>>
>>
>> to satisfactorily "marry"
>> psychological concepts with
>> sociological
>>
>> concepts, in CHAT or anywhere
>> else for that matter. But
>> doesn't the
>>
>>
>>
>> kind of
>>
>>
>> project Mike is talking about,
>> where goals are immanent in the
>>
>> project
>>
>> itself, and the project is
>> thoroughly and explicitly
>> collaborative,
>> go
>>
>>
>>
>> some
>>
>>
>> way to addressing this problem?
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> Arturo Escandon wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Just wanted to point out
>> that there are places
>> where you cannot
>>
>> even
>>
>> think of implementing a
>> simple plain standard
>> design experiment,
>>
>> let
>>
>> alone an ad-hoc
>> intervention because
>> educational settings and
>> institutions are thought
>> to be mere knowledge
>> reproduction-distribution
>> centers. Research is the
>> job of the
>>
>>
>>
>> Ministry
>>
>>
>> of Education. "Joint activity"? What
>> on Earth is that in Japan except
>>
>> the illusion of freedom
>> framed under top-down
>> cosmological
>> structure.
>> I am afraid that most of
>> the cases depicted in the
>> journal are a
>> reproduction of the
>> cultural conditions
>> existing in few settings,
>>
>> in
>>
>> few communities, in a
>> handful of countries. Am I
>> able to implement
>> an
>> intervention or mutual
>> appropriation in the
>> Japanese educational
>> context? No. Am I able to
>> do it in "local
>> communities", yes, but
>>
>>
>>
>> under
>>
>>
>> considerable restrictions. However, I
>> am guessing that the most
>>
>> effective interventions in
>> local communities spring
>> from social
>> crisis, not from planned
>> activity, that is, some
>> sort of
>>
>> punctuated
>>
>> equilibrium in which the
>> community changes or perish.
>>
>> I am very curious about
>> (1) how the structural
>> constraints and
>> affordances of
>> organisations themselves
>> shape those mutual
>> appropriations and how we
>> can account for them; (2)
>> how the
>> mediating
>> means themselves are
>> unequally distributed
>> (knowledge
>>
>> differential):
>>
>> in order to bridge the
>> differences established by
>> the lack of a
>>
>>
>>
>> common
>>
>>
>> repertoire of meanings you have to
>> engage in meaning making, creating
>>
>> in fact a new
>> differential; (3) the
>> unconscious in sign-making or
>> using activity.
>> Educational activity
>> brings consciousness at the
>> expense of bringing
>> unconsciousness as well. I
>> have not read a
>> single
>> decisive work addressing
>> the problem of fetishism
>> of the sign, on
>> which a theory of the
>> uncosciousness could be
>> integrated into
>>
>> CHAT,
>>
>> except for works that deal
>> with the problem of "the
>> ideal".
>>
>> Seeger asks the right
>> questions but I believe
>> there is much more
>>
>> out
>>
>> there about ways of
>> marriaging psychology and
>> sociology to give a
>> better account of agency.
>> At the end, the issues
>> raised by Sawyer
>> are
>> still relevant: CHAT keeps
>> operating with a process and
>>
>>
>>
>> methodological
>>
>>
>> ontology whereby the individual and
>> the social are inseparable but
>>
>> does not provide a clear
>> cut language of
>> description of how the
>>
>>
>>
>> social
>>
>>
>> structure shapes activity or, to put
>> it in Seeger's terms, how power
>>
>> shapes discourse (and
>> consciousness and identy).
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Arturo
>>
>>
>> On 10 November 2011 23:41,
>> Andy Blunden
>> <ablunden@mira.net
>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The current edition of
>> Theory & Psychology
>> looks very special. I
>>
>>
>>
>> admit I
>>
>>
>> have at this stage only actually
>> read the article by Mike Cole,
>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> Lecusay and Deborah Downing-Wilson,
>> but it is a special issue on
>>
>>
>> CHAT
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>> interventionist
>> methodology, with
>> articles by a number
>> of people
>>
>>
>>
>> from
>>
>>
>> Yrjo
>>
>> Engestrom's CRADLE and
>> also Falk Seeger, who
>> is guest editing the
>> Special
>> Issue of MCA on Emotions.
>>
>> Mike's article
>> elaborates on what the
>> participants call a
>> "mutual
>> appropriation"
>> approach to developing
>> theory and practice.
>>
>> Instead
>>
>>
>> of
>>
>>
>> implementing a project design and then
>> modifying it in the light of
>>
>>
>> the
>>
>>
>> reseacher's experience, the
>> researchers go in to a local community
>>
>>
>> with
>>
>>
>> very
>>
>> open ended ideas about
>> how and what they want
>> to achieve, and
>> engage
>> with
>> their community
>> partner, learn about
>> their (the partner's)
>>
>> project,
>>
>> offer
>> assistance and
>> resources and share
>> knowledge and
>> objectives and
>> ....
>> mutually appropriate.
>> The article describes
>> the results of a
>>
>>
>>
>> specific
>>
>>
>> project which is an exemplar of
>> "mutual appropriation" which has
>>
>>
>> grown
>>
>>
>> out
>>
>> of the 5thD
>> after-school programs
>> which LCHC began in
>> the 1980s.
>>
>> The article is
>> actually very moving.
>> I personally think
>> that this
>>
>>
>>
>> kind
>>
>>
>> of
>>
>> work is tackling the
>> main problem in front
>> of us
>> cultural-historical
>> cultural psychology
>> people today. If you
>> don't subscribe to
>>
>> Theory
>>
>> &
>> Psychology, I don't
>> know how you can get
>> to read the paper. Maybe
>> someone
>> has a solution there.
>> But it is a must read.
>> I will read the
>>
>>
>>
>> remaining
>>
>>
>> articles in the special issue, but
>> this is a real high.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------******--------------------------
>> **--**--**------------
>>
>>
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>>
>> Joint Editor MCA:
>>
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/******toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1>
>>
>> <http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>> <
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/***
>> *toc/hmca20/18/1 <http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1><
>>
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>>
>> Home Page:
>> http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
>>
>> Book:
>>
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.******aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.******aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
>>
>> <
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.**
>> **aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.*
>> ***aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**
>> ****____________
>>
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/******listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca>
>> <
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**
>> **listinfo/xmca <http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca><
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------**
>> ****--------------------------**--**--**
>> ------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Joint Editor MCA:
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/*****
>> *toc/hmca20/18/1 <http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1><
>>
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>> <
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/****
>> toc/hmca20/18/1 <http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1><
>>
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>>
>> Home Page:
>> http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
>> Book:
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.****
>> **aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.***
>> ***aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
>>
>> <
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.****
>> aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.***
>> *aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
>>
>> >
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>> ______________________________**
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------**
>> **----------------------------**--**
>> ------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Joint Editor MCA:
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> <
>>
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
>> Book:
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- ------------------------------**------------------------------*
>> *------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/*
>> *>
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
>> Department of Communication
>> University of California, San Diego
>>
>>
> --
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>
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--
Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
Department of Communication
University of California, San Diego
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