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Re: [xmca] Current edition of Theory & Psychology



So then it is the "projects" that are fluid?
i.e., they seep into different configurations of persons and swish around
in our social worlds?

-greg

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:

> As long ago as 1848 Marx said "all that is solid melts into air", and I do
> think this is the number one problem of our day. But actually I think it
> misses the point to ask if "it will be even harder today to try to find
> bonds that 'interlock individual choices in collective projects and
> actions.'" The destruction of the fabric of social life by neoliberalism
> *is* a problem, but the point is that projects *are* that fabric.
>
> It is not a quesiton of "political actions of human collectivities" but
> rather that instead of "collectivities" which are pre-formed groups of
> people which then decide to do actions, but on the contrary groups and the
> bonds which tie them are the *product of projects*. The fabric itself is
> projects. "Project" is the unit of analysis, not an abstraction formed by
> adding aims and actions to groups.
>
> Andy
>
> Greg Thompson wrote:
>
>> Andy (and others interested in projects/systems of activity/living
>> artifacts/etc.),
>>
>> And I think Zygmunt Bauman (in Liquid Modernity), when speaking of
>> melting in late modernity of previously solid social forms of life, puts a
>> particularly sharp point on my question (and yours?):
>>
>> "The solids whose turn has come to be thrown into the melting pot and
>> which are in the process of being melted at the present time, the time of
>> fluid modernity, are the bonds which interlock individual choices in
>> collective projects and actions - the patterns of communication and
>> co-ordination between individually conducted life policies on the one hand
>> and political actions of human collectivities on the other." (p. 6).
>>
>> This suggests that it will be even harder today to try to find bonds that
>> "interlock individual choices in collective projects and actions." This
>> takes it a step farther back from the projects to: How can we re-form these
>> bonds?
>> Or maybe we need a new way of conceiving of the project and of "projects"
>> altogether? Fluid and ephemeral projects that flow about, mix with, seep
>> into, and spread out?
>>
>> How to do this?
>> -greg
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
>> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>
>>    Yes, Greg, the notion of Recognition demonstrated in Hegel's
>>    Philosophy of Right I fully embrace, particularly because it is
>>    realised through a concept of mediation, rather than as an
>>    alternative to mediation, as it is found in some modern writing.
>>    And yes, I see this idea as to be realised through the idea of the
>>    formation of collaborative projects, rather than "groups" and
>>    associations.
>>
>>    Andy
>>
>>    Greg Thompson wrote:
>>
>>        As for the centrifugal forces that hold these entities
>>        together (whether
>>        you call them "systems of activity" or "projects"), I want to
>>        humbly add
>>        the importance of the Hegelian notion of "recognition." It
>>        seems to me that
>>        one of the critical functions of these entities is to provide
>>        recognition
>>        for individuals - to consummate them (to use Bakhtin's
>>        language). With the
>>        liquidity of identity that Ivan speaks of in modernity, it is
>>        these
>>        entities that provide for the moments of recognition that hold
>>        together our
>>        own selves as identities that can act agentively. And this is
>>        important.
>>
>>        In Philosophy of Right, Hegel introduces the idea and
>>        importance of
>>        "corporations." These serve important functions of providing
>>        recognition (a
>>        give and take between individual and group), but also
>>        practical matters
>>        like distribution of resources and the development of individual's
>>        abilities. Isn't this quite similar to what is behind the
>>        ideas being
>>        discussed here? Andy?
>>
>>        Here is a quote from Hegel's Lectures on Philosophy of Right
>>        that speaks to
>>        the obligations of wealthy in a "corporation" (really more of
>>        a "trade
>>        union" or something like that, but def. not the "corporation"
>>        that we speak
>>        of today):
>>
>>
>>        “But in the corporation the individual has his true
>>        consciousness and here
>>        he has a genuine noble opportunity to acquire honor. In the
>>        corporation the
>>        corruption of wealth is set aside…. In the corporation wealth
>>        is no longer
>>        an end in itself. He has duties in this circle…. Here he
>>        becomes something
>>        through the way he applies his wealth for the sake of his
>>        cooperative
>>        association.”
>>        H has much more to say about the importance of recognition for
>>        the poor as
>>        well due to their obligations to the corporation (whether or
>>        not this is
>>        built into the collaboration between TCLC and UCSD is a
>>        difficult thing to
>>        address. I think the families at TCLC have obligations to TCLC
>>        but their
>>        obligations and gift-giving to UCSD are not clear - this
>>        despite Mike's
>>        insistence upon them to the UCSD audience! The apparent (to most)
>>        one-sidedness of this kind of gift-giving creates a one sided
>>        moment of
>>        recognition where UCSD always has the upper hand (see M. Mauss
>>        on "no free
>>        gifts").
>>
>>        All of this speaks to an important issue in the U.S., namely
>>        the Grand
>>        Canyon that exists between rich and poor. The critical
>>        question in the U.S.
>>        is: where will such "corporations" come from? Where can the
>>        rich and poor
>>        cooperatively come together in a land that is literally
>>        structured by
>>        income - where how much you make determines where you live?
>>        Communities
>>        here are de facto segregated by income. (yes, there are some
>>        exceptions to
>>        this rule).
>>
>>        I think the TCLC partnership provides a means for this kind of
>>        (temporary)
>>        creation of community (corporation) that crosses income lines.
>>        Unfortunately, most of what makes up the "corporation", i.e., the
>>        undergrads, is rather fleeting. Twice a week for 10 weeks in
>>        and out. And
>>        folks at LCHC are clearly concerned about the value of this
>>        for the TCLC
>>        kids. It is sometimes hard not to think that the undergrads
>>        get more out of
>>        those 10 weeks than the TCLC kids do. But, even if this is the
>>        case, it is
>>        eye opening for those often privileged undergrads. And it is
>>        hard to
>>        imagine anywhere in the U.S. where the building of cross-income
>>        corporations is being done any better (Occupy Wall Street has
>>        very mixed
>>        results in this regard, For a critique of the middle-class
>>        white elitism of
>>        OWS, see: http://www.voxunion.com/?p=**4592<http://www.voxunion.com/?p=4592>
>> ).
>>
>>        -greg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>        On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Ivan Rosero <irosero@ucsd.edu
>>        <mailto:irosero@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>            I can see the reason for the excitement, and as I've come
>>            of age at LCHC
>>            over the last few years, it is this issue --what to call,
>>            how to frame
>>            analytically and explore methodologically, and what
>>            theoretical
>>            characterization to give these "meso zones"-- that has
>>            been the most
>>            salient issue for me.
>>
>>            If it is true that identity is liquid, and we move from
>>            one identity
>>            instantiation to another, then there must be accompanying
>>            socio-material
>>            formations within which such identities can be had while being
>>            simultaneously porous and loose enough to allow relatively
>>            unproblematic
>>            entry/exit.  No doubt that there are longer-lived
>>            structuring structures
>>            within which, and relative to which, these meso-scale
>>            formations come to
>>            life, but those are not the proximal site of interest
>>            here.  Further, those
>>            meso-scale formations that result from purposeful (and
>>            vulnerable) coming
>>            together without any guarantee of anything, are special
>>            indeed.
>>
>>            I fear the abstract here, but I will say at least that
>>            these things, for
>>            me, are a kind of prolepsis engine, formations through
>>            which different
>>            possibilities of how future arrangements might be
>>            organized are tried out
>>            in vivo, with all the complexities of the real thing
>>            because, well, they
>>            are the real thing!
>>
>>            The lack of clear-cut language is not surprising, because
>>            at the moment the
>>            pull inward that participants undergo around these
>>            collaborative
>>            partnerships, in my experience, surfaces as an ethical
>>            aesthetic which does
>>            not yet enjoy the clarity of a full blown political
>>            program of action.
>>             There might even be more than a little fatigue with the
>>            latter, and more
>>            of a desire to explore different ways of being together
>>            that do not require
>>            (and may die as soon as these are reached) clear
>>            categories and conceptual
>>            pronouncements.
>>
>>            ivan
>>
>>            On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Andy Blunden
>>            <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>                Eugene Matusov has an article in Outlines on the topic
>>                of the
>>                sustainability of these projects:
>>                http://ojs.statsbiblioteket.**
>>                dk/index.php/outlines/article/****view/2662<
>>
>>            http://ojs.statsbiblioteket.**dk/index.php/outlines/article/**
>> view/2662<http://ojs.statsbiblioteket.dk/index.php/outlines/article/view/2662>
>> >where
>>            he says: "The success of our after-school partnership
>>            between a
>>
>>                community center and our university's School of
>>                Education does not
>>                necessarily require ... a common vision between
>>                partners or even
>>
>>            compatible
>>
>>                visions." I would welcome comments on this view.
>>
>>                Also, what is the story with the Laboratory School at
>>                UCLA?
>>                Andy
>>
>>
>>                Andy Blunden wrote:
>>
>>
>>                    By "crisis," Ivan, I had in mind just the kind of
>>                    situation you describe
>>                    in southern San Diego.
>>
>>                    As I reported to Mike at the time, when I read
>>                    "Cultural Psychology" a
>>                    few years ago, I got really excited, not so much
>>                    because of the specific
>>                    teaching and learning methods that were going to
>>                    be used, but rather
>>
>>            that -
>>
>>                    like the climax of a detective novel - Mike had
>>                    identified the culprit,
>>
>>            the
>>
>>                    research problem that lay at the heart of problems
>>                    of poverty and
>>                    illiteracy in developed countries - /how is it
>>                    possible to sustain a
>>                    project/? what characterises a /sustainable
>>                    project/? This revelation
>>
>>            was
>>
>>                    crucial in my coming to the conclusion that the
>>                    molar unit of analysis
>>
>>            for
>>
>>                    CHAT had to be the /collaborative project/, athe
>>                    conclusion which I
>>
>>            drew in
>>
>>                    my book published earlier this year, "An
>>                    Interdisciplinary Theory of
>>                    Activity."
>>
>>                    This did not mean of course that I had the answer
>>                    - Heavens! a concrete
>>                    answer to teh question of what sustains a
>>                    collaborative project is the
>>                    answer to all the problems of modernity. It is a
>>                    clear definition, in my
>>                    view, of the problem, the "germ cell" for an
>>                    understanding of modern
>>
>>            social
>>
>>                    life. It is what really needs to be studied.
>>
>>                    "Collaborative project" is not just a special
>>                    topic or one choice for
>>                    making interventions, because (1) "Project," in my
>>                    view, is a much
>>
>>            better
>>
>>                    way of concieving of the unit of social life than
>>                    "system of activity."
>>
>>            In
>>
>>                    particular, the relation between the so-called
>>                    object and "system." For
>>
>>            a
>>
>>                    project, the aim is not something separate which
>>                    gets added to the
>>
>>            system
>>
>>                    of activity, but is /immanent in the project
>>                    itself/. It is emergent.
>>
>>            It is
>>
>>                    "realised." (2) "Collaboration" is the
>>                    fundamental, normative
>>
>>            relationship
>>
>>                    between people of modern life. So it is an
>>                    adequate definition of what
>>
>>            we
>>
>>                    need to be studying when we do research into human
>>                    life. We need to
>>                    understand collaboration. But fairly few CHAT
>>                    researchers (let alone
>>
>>            anyone
>>
>>                    else) make this explicit and upfront.
>>                    Collaboration is only possible if
>>                    there is a project to collaborate on and all
>>                    projects are collaborative.
>>                    Concepts originate as the immanent realised aims
>>                    of projects. So
>>                    collaborative projects form the units of our
>>                    psychic life just as they
>>
>>            are
>>
>>                    the units of our social life. So as a unit of
>>                    /analysis/, collaborative
>>                    projects reflect collaborative projects as the
>>                    *real* unit of social
>>
>>            life.
>>
>>                    So you can understand how excited I was to read
>>                    your article in /Theory
>>
>>            &
>>
>>                    Psychology/!
>>                    Andy
>>
>>                    Ivan Rosero wrote:
>>
>>
>>                        Well, bankruptcies can still make more than a
>>                        few very rich, so the
>>
>>            "we"
>>
>>                        and "our" in this building of habitable
>>                        imaginaries presupposes a prior
>>                        set
>>                        of other imaginaries through to come together
>>                        anew, and perhaps
>>                        differently, even if we think we know each
>>                        other --or, in other words,
>>
>>            to
>>
>>                        give each other space to be other things, to
>>                        be strangers in creative
>>                        ways
>>                        in order to have any hope of reinventing and
>>                        in*forming what we do in
>>                        such
>>                        a way to make it more hospitable.
>>
>>                        As it happens, one tendril that continues to
>>                        pass through Town and
>>                        Country,
>>                        but is now much more active elsewhere in
>>                        southeast San Diego, is a
>>
>>            strong
>>
>>                        connection to the food system change movement,
>>                        which another graduate
>>                        student at LCHC is exploring after having
>>                        dwelt for a while at T&C.
>>
>>             Here
>>
>>                        is one of its core members, Diane Moss (quoted in
>>                        http://www.voiceofsandiego.****
>> org/people/q_and_a/article_**
>>                        cde3547e-f6b1-11e0-bfba-****001cc4c03286.html<
>>
>>            http://www.voiceofsandiego.**org/people/q_and_a/article_**
>> cde3547e-f6b1-11e0-bfba-**001cc4c03286.html<http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/people/q_and_a/article_cde3547e-f6b1-11e0-bfba-001cc4c03286.html>
>>
>>                        )
>>                        who we know personally, answering a few
>>                        questions in a way that
>>                        concretizes
>>                        the shape of a few new imaginaries that we
>>                        here at LCHC have been drawn
>>                        into:
>>
>>
>>                        *What happened when you came back from that
>>                        workshop in 2008?*
>>
>>                        I started seeing empty lots and seeing they
>>                        could be used for other
>>                        purposes. I saw that we probably had the
>>                        ability to grow our own food.
>>
>>                        I bet on any block in southeastern San Diego,
>>                        somebody's growing
>>                        something
>>                        in their backyard: collard greens, corn. We
>>                        started looking at how we
>>                        could
>>                        take that talent and start having
>>                        conversations about collective
>>
>>            growing
>>
>>                        or
>>                        community gardens. Even though we didn't use
>>                        the term "food desert" at
>>                        that
>>                        time, we talked about why we didn't have the
>>                        same markets everyone else
>>                        has.
>>
>>                        *Why didn't you like "food desert"?*
>>
>>                        I thought desert meant nothing — that you had
>>                        nothing to build on. I
>>                        said,
>>                        well, we've got people who grow things. We're
>>                        not starting from
>>
>>            scratch.
>>
>>                        But I embraced it when I became familiar with
>>                        another definition: that
>>                        there are more fast food outlets than fresh
>>                        food outlets.
>>
>>                        *You hadn't thought about access to good food
>>                        in this community as a
>>                        problem before 2008?*
>>
>>                        Southeastern San Diego always gets tagged as a
>>                        community with lots of
>>                        problems. So here was another negative tag
>>                        people put on this
>>
>>            community.
>>
>>                        I
>>                        saw that we didn't have the resources we
>>                        needed, but I didn't think of
>>
>>            it
>>
>>                        in terms of a food desert.
>>
>>                        *What have been the biggest challenges to
>>                        getting people involved?*
>>
>>                        People say yes, we should have gardens. But
>>                        it's difficult for people
>>
>>            to
>>
>>                        change their habits.
>>
>>                        *How do you change habits?*
>>
>>                        It takes time. Neighbors talking to neighbors.
>>                        People taking a chance
>>
>>            to
>>
>>                        do
>>                        something different.
>>
>>                        -------
>>                        LCHC has been fortunate beyond any expectation
>>                        to have entered into
>>
>>            this
>>
>>                        new collaboration and the mesh of actors it
>>                        pulls together.
>>
>>                        Ivan
>>
>>
>>
>>                        On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Larry Purss
>>                        <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>>                        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
>>                        wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                            My response to this thread is an extension
>>                            of the notion of
>>                            "ambivalence"
>>                            at the heart and soul of all social
>>                            imaginaries.
>>                            It was mentioned that the motivating force
>>                            to "keep going" without
>>                            clarity
>>                            of intention or goals is the "felt sense"
>>                            of social BANKRUPTCY
>>
>>            [economic
>>
>>                            metaphor] in the current social imaginary.
>>                             Zygmunt Bauman uses the
>>
>>            very
>>
>>                            extreme metaphor of "waste" in his 2004
>>                            book to stir the ambivalence
>>
>>            at
>>
>>                            the
>>                            center of our current social imaginary.
>>                             Ingold's article I recently
>>                            posted
>>                            captured the 12 century social imaginary
>>                            where walking, texts,
>>                            architecture, discourse, and contemplation
>>                            were all manifestations of
>>
>>            a
>>
>>                            single ontology. All these objects
>>                            expressed a social imaginary that
>>
>>            did
>>
>>                            not have some of the object "representing"
>>                            the "underlying" social
>>                            imaginary but rather were ALL immanebt
>>                            manifestations of the SAME
>>
>>            social
>>
>>                            imaginary.
>>
>>                            Modernity [the tension between
>>                            enlightenment and romanitic
>>
>>            hermeneutical
>>
>>                            ideas/ideals] also may have an
>>                            encompassing social imaginary that has
>>
>>            a
>>
>>                            fundamental rupture [ambivalence] in the
>>                            notion of "representation" as
>>                            expressing some "underlying" reality
>>                            [realization] when in actuality the modern
>>                            walks, texts, architecture,
>>                            discourses and contemplations are
>>                            expressions of a monolithic social
>>                            imaginary.
>>                            Bauman's analysis of modernity [he is an
>>                            "exile" from the holocaust]
>>
>>            has
>>
>>                            situated ambivalence at the heart of ALL
>>                            social imaginaries when
>>                            realized
>>                            express "order" or "structure" which
>>                            requires LIMITING  formations.
>>                            This is
>>                            the core idea of sociology.  Baumans
>>                            emancipatory vision for
>>                            sociological
>>                            imagination [in which he generates
>>                            multiple metaphors] is to explicate
>>                            the
>>                            ambivalence at the heart of modernity
>>                            leading to social bankruptcy. It
>>                            is
>>                            the reality of this ambivalence in our
>>                            current modern social imaginary
>>                            where Bauman locates hope and the
>>                            possibility for emancipation from
>>
>>            the
>>
>>                            "waste lands".
>>                            Bauman purposely is exploring the power of
>>                            the metaphor of "waste" to
>>                            grasp
>>                            the desolation of our current
>>                            arrangements. For Bauman the metaphor of
>>                            "waste" as the by-product of our
>>                            "productions" in our "garden
>>
>>            contexts"
>>
>>                            [another metaphor which the Nazi's used to
>>                            create a social imaginary
>>                            where
>>                            Jews were "weeds" in the garden]  is
>>                            grasping the fundamental
>>                            ambivalence
>>                            at the heart of our social bankruptcy.
>>                            For Bauman and many others who are
>>                            searching for a new orientation in
>>                            our
>>                            globalized planetary social imaginary the
>>                            metaphor of "the suffering
>>                            stranger" travelling in the waste lands is
>>                            the moral calling
>>
>>            requiring a
>>
>>                            response as a growing "response-ability"
>>                            as a "skill" developing
>>
>>            within
>>
>>                            a
>>                            "new commons".
>>                            We need new "practises" and new "texts"
>>                            and also new discourses and
>>
>>            new
>>
>>                            forms of contemplation.  However, I'm
>>                            wondering how central to
>>                            transcending
>>                            our current social imaginary, which is now
>>                            a wasteland, are new forms
>>
>>            of
>>
>>                            architecture which express the yearning to
>>                            respond to the suffering
>>                            stranger.
>>
>>                            In summary, the larger contexts being
>>                            explored may be
>>
>>            cultural-semiotic
>>
>>                            imaginaries that must become realized
>>                            within a new commons which must
>>
>>            be
>>
>>                            in*formed to "hold" the suffering stranger
>>                            in our midst [difference
>>
>>            and
>>
>>                            alterity and weeds and waste as the
>>                            ambivalence at the heart of the
>>                            modern
>>                            vision of the garden]
>>
>>                            Accountability, measurement, statistics,
>>                            as our current social
>>                            imaginary of
>>                            cultural and social "order" at its heart
>>                            has the cavity of the
>>
>>            suffering
>>
>>                            stranger that is now calling for a
>>                            response and a new cultural and
>>                            social
>>                            order in a new commons which must be
>>                            in*formed as our response-ability
>>                            to
>>                            the call of the other.
>>
>>                            Bauman's notion of "waste" and "waste
>>                            lands" as by-products of our
>>                            globalized social imaginary calls for an
>>                            alternative social imaginary
>>                            that
>>                            exists in the ambivalence at the heart of
>>                            our current  world order.
>>
>>                            Larry
>>                            On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Ivan
>>                            Rosero <irosero@ucsd.edu
>>                            <mailto:irosero@ucsd.edu>>
>>
>>            wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>                                Arturo, two things coincide for me in
>>                                reading your email:  1) I've
>>
>>            been
>>
>>                                working for the last 4 years in the
>>                                same collaboration that
>>                                Lecusay,Downing-Wilson,Cole have
>>                                written about, and 2) I too share
>>
>>            the
>>
>>                                following concern:
>>
>>                                ----
>>                                CHAT keeps operating with a process
>>                                and methodological
>>                                ontology whereby the individual and
>>                                the social are inseparable but
>>                                does not provide a clear cut language
>>                                of description of how the
>>
>>            social
>>
>>                                structure shapes activity or, to put
>>                                it in Seeger's terms, how power
>>                                shapes discourse (and consciousness
>>                                and identy).
>>                                ----
>>
>>                                As the authors have described, the
>>                                community setting in which this
>>                                latest
>>                                of LCHC's projects has unfolded does
>>                                not permit even the relatively
>>                                loose
>>                                structures that were the hallmarks of
>>                                previous 5D projects --this is
>>
>>
>>
>>                            where
>>
>>
>>
>>                                the ad-hoc stumbling upon interesting
>>                                things to do together is such
>>
>>            an
>>
>>                                important component of the dual sense
>>                                of "appropriation".  In the
>>                                social
>>                                space that has been created between
>>                                LCHC and Town and Country there
>>
>>
>>
>>                            exists
>>
>>
>>
>>                                (as I have experienced it over the
>>                                last four years) an enduring
>>
>>
>>
>>                            liminality
>>
>>
>>
>>                                that refuses to come to closure
>>                                --neither LCHC participants,
>>
>>            including
>>
>>
>>                            grad
>>
>>
>>
>>                                students, staff, and undergraduate
>>                                students, nor T&C participants
>>
>>            have
>>
>>                                arrived at any definite position vis a
>>                                vis what we are doing
>>
>>            together.
>>
>>
>>                             The
>>
>>
>>
>>                                kids get older, new ones arrive, some
>>                                teens have left, club and group
>>                                structures change, entire families
>>                                move out.  UCSD's side of the
>>
>>            story
>>
>>                                is
>>                                more predictable in the institutional
>>                                sense of allowing year-on-year
>>                                planning of classes and recruitment of
>>                                students, as well as, of
>>
>>            course,
>>
>>
>>                            the
>>
>>
>>
>>                                staying power of UCSD as a much longer
>>                                running process than the
>>                                collaboration itself.  But this can
>>                                only explain the brute sense of
>>
>>            our
>>
>>                                continued presence, one which would be
>>                                impossible to impose in any
>>                                case,
>>
>>
>>
>>                            so
>>
>>
>>
>>                                that we still have to try and explain
>>                                the delicate sense of our
>>                                continued
>>                                presence --what is happening in the
>>                                space of this
>>                                cross-cultural/cross-****institutional
>>                                intersection that keeps pulling
>>
>>
>>
>>                            together
>>
>>
>>
>>                                (in a delicate way) such a
>>                                heterogenous amalgam of participants --a
>>                                constant churn of undergraduate
>>                                buddies, a more stable set of grad
>>                                students, a constant, but slowly
>>                                changing, stream of kids, Ms. V.,
>>
>>            and
>>
>>
>>                            the
>>
>>
>>
>>                                few community parents that regularly
>>                                lend a hand?
>>
>>                                You and Andy have said that there must
>>                                be some kind of crisis, and
>>
>>            this
>>
>>
>>                            may
>>
>>
>>
>>                                be so, but if this is what is allowing
>>                                the participants to come
>>                                together
>>                                anew, it is not the kind of crisis
>>                                that can be compared to, say,
>>
>>            Occupy
>>
>>                                Wall Street, or Greece, or the Arab
>>                                Spring.  It might be that I lack
>>                                the
>>                                requisite social imagination, but the
>>                                way I see it, what is special
>>                                about
>>                                this collaboration is that it holds
>>                                together without disclosing to
>>
>>            its
>>
>>                                participants directly how this is
>>                                happening.  We have been at it for
>>                                four
>>                                years, and it isn't obvious to me why,
>>                                as a T&C elder says, we "keep
>>
>>            on
>>
>>                                keeping on".  This is especially true
>>                                in light of severe, and
>>                                recurrent,
>>                                frustrations on every side.  For
>>                                example, in the absence of UCSD
>>
>>
>>
>>                            students,
>>
>>
>>
>>                                homework does not get done nearly as
>>                                regularly as when they are there
>>                                --this creates a huge problem for Ms.
>>                                V, who must still try to
>>
>>            satisfy
>>
>>
>>                            this
>>
>>
>>
>>                                community need in our absence.
>>                                 Sometimes we at LCHC find ourselves
>>
>>            at
>>
>>
>>                            odds
>>
>>
>>
>>                                with local customs and decisions, to
>>                                which we nevertheless submit in
>>
>>
>>
>>                            order
>>
>>
>>
>>                                to keep on keeping on.  But where are
>>                                we keeping on to?  (Especially
>>                                without access to clear-cut language
>>                                with which to explain any of
>>                                this!)
>>
>>                                So, these kinds of open-ended
>>                                interactional spaces elicit from their
>>                                participants a degree of patience that
>>                                is rarely seen anywhere --more
>>                                or
>>                                less equally distributed!  Southeast
>>                                San Diego, where T&C is located,
>>                                is
>>                                not unique in all the ways that its
>>                                inhabitants are systematically
>>                                marginalized, and it is a fact that
>>                                local community organizers (I've
>>                                been
>>                                at some of their meetings) look on
>>                                UCSD and charitable institutions
>>                                with
>>                                very suspicious eyes.  In the face of
>>                                these realities, mutual
>>
>>
>>
>>                            appropriation
>>
>>
>>
>>                                is one factor, but not a wholly
>>                                explanatory one for the loose
>>                                holding-together that is going on here.
>>
>>                                Whatever the answers are, it is
>>                                impossible for me to conceive of a
>>                                satisfying explanation that does not
>>                                include affective-imaginative
>>                                dimensions.  The way I see it, the
>>                                mystery here is not how
>>
>>
>>
>>                            power/structure
>>
>>
>>
>>                                shapes discourse/activity, it is why
>>                                this collaboration holds in the
>>                                face
>>                                of what would normally be
>>                                insurmountable difficulties.  Good
>>                                will and
>>                                patience all around?  Maybe, but this
>>                                only pushes the question deeper
>>
>>
>>
>>                            into
>>
>>
>>
>>                                the affective-imaginative life of this
>>                                collaboration.
>>
>>                                Ivan
>>
>>
>>                                On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Andy
>>                                Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>>                                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>>                                wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                    Continuing my sharing of the
>>                                    current edition of Theory & Psyhology,
>>                                    attached are scans of Deborah
>>                                    Downing-Wilson, Robert Lecusay and
>>
>>            Mike
>>
>>                                    Cole's paper (which I have been so
>>                                    excited about) and the first 16
>>
>>
>>
>>                                pages
>>
>>
>>                                of
>>
>>
>>
>>                                    Yrjo Engestrom's paper (I have
>>                                    omitted the case study) which is a
>>
>>
>>
>>                                concise
>>
>>
>>                                synopsis of his current views on
>>                                activity and concepts.
>>
>>                                    Andy
>>
>>
>>                                    Andy Blunden wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                        That's a very interesting
>>                                        series of points, Arturo!
>>                                        Could I just ask you to
>>                                        elaborate a little on what you
>>                                        meant by
>>
>>            "the
>>
>>                                        unconscious in sign-making"
>>                                        and "the problem of fetishism
>>                                        of the
>>
>>
>>
>>                                    sign."
>>
>>
>>                                I guess that you are right that in
>>                                almost any social context (the US
>>
>>                                        included I suspect), the kind
>>                                        of project that Mike writes
>>                                        about can
>>
>>
>>
>>                                    only be
>>
>>
>>                                    implemented by surruptitiously
>>                                    moving the goal posts set by the
>>
>>
>>                                    recognised
>>
>>
>>                                    authorities, by a kind of
>>                                    subversion, making use of openings
>>                                    created
>>
>>
>>                                    by
>>
>>
>>                                manifest social crisis.
>>
>>                                        As I'm sure you know, I am in
>>                                        agreement with your critique
>>                                        of the
>>
>>
>>
>>                                    failure
>>
>>
>>                                    to satisfactorily "marry"
>>                                    psychological concepts with
>>                                    sociological
>>
>>                                        concepts, in CHAT or anywhere
>>                                        else for that matter. But
>>                                        doesn't the
>>
>>
>>
>>                                    kind of
>>
>>
>>                                    project Mike is talking about,
>>                                    where goals are immanent in the
>>
>>            project
>>
>>                                        itself, and the project is
>>                                        thoroughly and explicitly
>>                                        collaborative,
>>                                        go
>>
>>
>>
>>                                    some
>>
>>
>>                                    way to addressing this problem?
>>
>>                                        Andy
>>
>>                                        Arturo Escandon wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                            Just wanted to point out
>>                                            that there are places
>>                                            where you cannot
>>
>>            even
>>
>>                                            think of implementing a
>>                                            simple plain standard
>>                                            design experiment,
>>
>>            let
>>
>>                                            alone an ad-hoc
>>                                            intervention because
>>                                            educational settings and
>>                                            institutions are thought
>>                                            to be mere knowledge
>>                                            reproduction-distribution
>>                                            centers. Research is the
>>                                            job of the
>>
>>
>>
>>                                        Ministry
>>
>>
>>                                of Education. "Joint activity"? What
>>                                on Earth is that in Japan except
>>
>>                                            the illusion of freedom
>>                                            framed under top-down
>>                                            cosmological
>>                                            structure.
>>                                            I am afraid that most of
>>                                            the cases depicted in the
>>                                            journal are a
>>                                            reproduction of the
>>                                            cultural conditions
>>                                            existing in few settings,
>>
>>            in
>>
>>                                            few communities, in a
>>                                            handful of countries. Am I
>>                                            able to implement
>>                                            an
>>                                            intervention or mutual
>>                                            appropriation in the
>>                                            Japanese educational
>>                                            context? No. Am I able to
>>                                            do it in "local
>>                                            communities", yes, but
>>
>>
>>
>>                                        under
>>
>>
>>                                considerable restrictions. However, I
>>                                am guessing that the most
>>
>>                                            effective interventions in
>>                                            local communities spring
>>                                            from social
>>                                            crisis, not from planned
>>                                            activity, that is, some
>>                                            sort of
>>
>>            punctuated
>>
>>                                            equilibrium in which the
>>                                            community changes or perish.
>>
>>                                            I am very curious about
>>                                            (1) how the structural
>>                                            constraints and
>>                                            affordances of
>>                                            organisations themselves
>>                                            shape those mutual
>>                                            appropriations and how we
>>                                            can account for them; (2)
>>                                            how the
>>                                            mediating
>>                                            means themselves are
>>                                            unequally distributed
>>                                            (knowledge
>>
>>            differential):
>>
>>                                            in order to bridge the
>>                                            differences established by
>>                                            the lack of a
>>
>>
>>
>>                                        common
>>
>>
>>                                repertoire of meanings you have to
>>                                engage in meaning making, creating
>>
>>                                            in fact a new
>>                                            differential; (3) the
>>                                            unconscious in sign-making or
>>                                            using activity.
>>                                            Educational activity
>>                                            brings consciousness at the
>>                                            expense of bringing
>>                                            unconsciousness as well. I
>>                                            have not read a
>>                                            single
>>                                            decisive work addressing
>>                                            the problem of fetishism
>>                                            of the sign, on
>>                                            which a theory of the
>>                                            uncosciousness could be
>>                                            integrated into
>>
>>            CHAT,
>>
>>                                            except for works that deal
>>                                            with the problem of "the
>>                                            ideal".
>>
>>                                            Seeger asks the right
>>                                            questions but I believe
>>                                            there is much more
>>
>>            out
>>
>>                                            there about ways of
>>                                            marriaging psychology and
>>                                            sociology to give a
>>                                            better account of agency.
>>                                            At the end, the issues
>>                                            raised by Sawyer
>>                                            are
>>                                            still relevant: CHAT keeps
>>                                            operating with a process and
>>
>>
>>
>>                                        methodological
>>
>>
>>                                ontology whereby the individual and
>>                                the social are inseparable but
>>
>>                                            does not provide a clear
>>                                            cut language of
>>                                            description of how the
>>
>>
>>
>>                                        social
>>
>>
>>                                structure shapes activity or, to put
>>                                it in Seeger's terms, how power
>>
>>                                            shapes discourse (and
>>                                            consciousness and identy).
>>
>>                                            Best
>>
>>                                            Arturo
>>
>>
>>                                            On 10 November 2011 23:41,
>>                                            Andy Blunden
>>                                            <ablunden@mira.net
>>                                            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>>
>>            wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                                The current edition of
>>                                                Theory & Psychology
>>                                                looks very special. I
>>
>>
>>
>>                                            admit I
>>
>>
>>                                    have at this stage only actually
>>                                    read the article by Mike Cole,
>>
>>
>>                                            Robert
>>
>>
>>                                Lecusay and Deborah Downing-Wilson,
>>                                but it is a special issue on
>>
>>
>>                                            CHAT
>>
>>
>>                                and
>>
>>                                                interventionist
>>                                                methodology, with
>>                                                articles by a number
>>                                                of people
>>
>>
>>
>>                                            from
>>
>>
>>                                Yrjo
>>
>>                                                Engestrom's CRADLE and
>>                                                also Falk Seeger, who
>>                                                is guest editing the
>>                                                Special
>>                                                Issue of MCA on Emotions.
>>
>>                                                Mike's article
>>                                                elaborates on what the
>>                                                participants call a
>>                                                "mutual
>>                                                appropriation"
>>                                                approach to developing
>>                                                theory and practice.
>>
>>            Instead
>>
>>
>>                                            of
>>
>>
>>                                implementing a project design and then
>>                                modifying it in the light of
>>
>>
>>                                            the
>>
>>
>>                                    reseacher's experience, the
>>                                    researchers go in to a local community
>>
>>
>>                                            with
>>
>>
>>                                    very
>>
>>                                                open ended ideas about
>>                                                how and what they want
>>                                                to achieve, and
>>                                                engage
>>                                                with
>>                                                their community
>>                                                partner, learn about
>>                                                their (the partner's)
>>
>>            project,
>>
>>                                                offer
>>                                                assistance and
>>                                                resources and share
>>                                                knowledge and
>>                                                objectives and
>>                                                ....
>>                                                mutually appropriate.
>>                                                The article describes
>>                                                the results of a
>>
>>
>>
>>                                            specific
>>
>>
>>                                project which is an exemplar of
>>                                "mutual appropriation" which has
>>
>>
>>                                            grown
>>
>>
>>                                out
>>
>>                                                of the 5thD
>>                                                after-school programs
>>                                                which LCHC began in
>>                                                the 1980s.
>>
>>                                                The article is
>>                                                actually very moving.
>>                                                I personally think
>>                                                that this
>>
>>
>>
>>                                            kind
>>
>>
>>                                of
>>
>>                                                work is tackling the
>>                                                main problem in front
>>                                                of us
>>                                                cultural-historical
>>                                                cultural psychology
>>                                                people today. If you
>>                                                don't subscribe to
>>
>>            Theory
>>
>>                                                &
>>                                                Psychology, I don't
>>                                                know how you can get
>>                                                to read the paper. Maybe
>>                                                someone
>>                                                has a solution there.
>>                                                But it is a must read.
>>                                                I will read the
>>
>>
>>
>>                                            remaining
>>
>>
>>                                articles in the special issue, but
>>                                this is a real high.
>>
>>                                                Andy
>>
>>
>>                                                --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>            ------------------------------******--------------------------
>> **--**--**------------
>>
>>
>>
>>                                *Andy Blunden*
>>
>>                                                Joint Editor MCA:
>>
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/******toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1>
>>
>>            <http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>>                                                <
>>
>>
>>
>>                                            http://www.tandfonline.com/***
>> *toc/hmca20/18/1 <http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1><
>>
>>            http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>>
>>                                    Home Page:
>>                                    http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>                                    <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
>>
>>                                                Book:
>>
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.******aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>                                                <
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.******aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>>            http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>            <http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
>>
>>                                                <
>>
>>
>>
>>                                            http://www.brill.nl/default.**
>> **aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>                                            <http://www.brill.nl/default.*
>> ***aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>>            http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>            <http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>                                    ______________________________**
>> ****____________
>>
>>                                                _____
>>                                                xmca mailing list
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>>                                                <mailto:
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>> **listinfo/xmca <http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca><
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                    --
>>                                    ------------------------------**
>> ****--------------------------**--**--**
>>                                    ------------
>>                                    *Andy Blunden*
>>                                    Joint Editor MCA:
>>                                    http://www.tandfonline.com/*****
>> *toc/hmca20/18/1 <http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1><
>>
>>            http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>>                                    <
>>
>>
>>
>>                                http://www.tandfonline.com/****
>> toc/hmca20/18/1 <http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1><
>>
>>            http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>>
>>                                    Home Page:
>>                                    http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>                                    <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
>>                                    Book:
>>                                    http://www.brill.nl/default.****
>> **aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>                                    <http://www.brill.nl/default.***
>> ***aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>>            http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>            <http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
>>
>>                                    <
>>
>>
>>
>>                                http://www.brill.nl/default.****
>> aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>                                <http://www.brill.nl/default.***
>> *aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>>            http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>            <http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
>>
>>                                 >
>>
>>
>>
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                --
>>                ------------------------------**
>> **----------------------------**--**
>>                ------------
>>                *Andy Blunden*
>>                Joint Editor MCA:
>>                http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> <
>>
>>            http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
>> >
>>
>>                Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>                <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
>>                Book:
>>                http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>                <http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> ><
>>
>>            http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>            <http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    --     ------------------------------**------------------------------*
>> *------------
>>    *Andy Blunden*
>>    Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
>>    Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/*
>> *>
>>    Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>    <http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>> >
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
>> Department of Communication
>> University of California, San Diego
>>
>>
> --
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>
> ______________________________**____________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
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> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>



-- 
Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
Department of Communication
University of California, San Diego
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