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Re: "neo-liberal" Re: [xmca]schools-without-computers-by-choice-and-conviction-that-they-dont-help-kids

Yes of course you are right Tony.
I can understand how the term is confusing for Americans. Imagine our confusion when FaceBook offers you are choice of labelling yourself "liberal" or "conservative." Which always reminds me of the answer to the Blues Brothers' question: "Both kinds of music: Country and Western." 

Andy

Tony Whitson wrote:
I think it's really Hayek, rather than Friedman. Friedman actually thought Keynes was right on a fundamental level.
The first time I heard "neo-liberalism" being used ubiquitously was at a conference on Comparative and International Education. I think it "went viral" among critics of the ideology of globalization in its current form. 

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011, Andy Blunden wrote:
C'mon Huw! :) "Neo-liberal" is an extremely common term in public discourse here in Australia. Of course I can't answer for the US, even though the ideas arrived here from the US. Here's the Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism which shows its specific meanings in a number of different countries. I would say that the term came in in the wake of the failure of both Keynes and Milton Friedman, though the notion is very sympathetic to Milton Friedman's ideology, but not so closely associated with control of the macro-economic levers by central government. Part of the difficulty of accepting the term in the US may be the use of "liberal" as a term of abuse by those who are in fact "neo-liberals". The ideas are native to the US but the choice of word is somewhat "un-American." :) 

Andy

Huw Lloyd wrote:
On 30 October 2011 23:57, Michael Glassman <MGlassman@ehe.osu.edu> wrote: 



Hi Huw.

Neo-liberal has almost nothing to do with traditional definitions of
liberal.  There is a long and convoluted history to the term.  I might
suggest Naomi Klein's book for a good definition if you are interested. 




That it explains why I didn't know it.  It disqualifies itself.

Huw




Michael

________________________________

From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Huw Lloyd
Sent: Sun 10/30/2011 7:44 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re:
[xmca]schools-without-computers-by-choice-and-conviction-that-they-dont-help-kids
On 30 October 2011 22:26, Michael Glassman <MGlassman@ehe.osu.edu> wrote: 



Hi Huw,

My difficulty with the Gates Foundation is similar to many of the
corporate sponsors pouring money into foundations in attempts to


influence
education policy. The worst among them is probably the Broad Foundation 
which I believe has been highly detrimental in the corporate


administrators


that they are training and then bribing impoverished school districts


(with
tip money to them) to put them in power. I think they've been failures 
everywhere, but of course when you have backers like that you fail


upwards.


Anyway I see many of these "foundations" as attempting to instill a


strong
neo-liberal ideology in our schools. It is part of Naomi Klein's "Shock 
Doctrine."  These foundations are turning our school systems into the


Chile


of 2011.




Hi Michael,
The connotations of the term 'liberal' in the uk are mostly positive, for instance of seeking to go beyond symptoms, such as tolerating anti-social 
behaviour in favour of the promise of a more permanent and significant
improvement (i.e. transformation rather than containment). The other side of the coin is the notion of putting "well meaning" before realistic, or 
practical, implementation.
Does "neo" in the political stream connote "watered down"? As opposed to 
its use in philosophy such as Neoplatonism.
Sorry for the rant, but this is one of my many peeves (so many I can't 
even claim they are pets anymore).



Maybe you could start a peeve hive?  :)

Huw




Michael

________________________________

From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Huw Lloyd
Sent: Sun 10/30/2011 4:56 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re:
[xmca]schools-without-computers-by-choice-and-conviction-that-they-dont-help-kids 



On 26 October 2011 13:03, Michael Glassman <MGlassman@ehe.osu.edu>


wrote:


[...]
There is also the idea of who is actually interviewed in the article


and
quote in the blog post. The head of e-bay isn't really that much of a 
technology person, more of a businessman, and I believe a strong
libertarian. Don't assume the Silicon Valley people have that good a 


grasp


of education.  Remember Bill Gates (I know, he's Seattle) and his
foundation are in my opinion doing more harm than good to open and
progressive education.


Hi Michael,

Out of interest, what flavour of objection do you have to the Gates
Foundation?
My thoughts were about the cautionary ideas exemplified by Ivan Illich (secondary problems introduced by institutionalising monetarily poorer 
countries and the like), though I'm currently fairly ignorant of what
they're actually doing.

Huw
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--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857

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Tony Whitson
UD School of Education
NEWARK  DE  19716

twhitson@udel.edu
_______________________________

"those who fail to reread
 are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
                  -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)




--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857

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