RE: [xmca] Ceci n'est pas un dollar

[Rod Parker-Rees <R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk>]

Apologies for skimming a stone over the surface of a deep discussion but I couldn't resist chipping in with a recommendation for Lewis Hyde's lovely book 'The Gift: how the creative spirit transforms the world' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gift-Creative-Spirit-Transforms-World/dp/1841958336 - other ways of accessing books are available!). I think Hyde deals very well with the important distinction between the exchange of gifts (which leads to a social, relational bond which is importantly more than a debt) and commercial transactions between people who do not (necessarily) have a social relationship. He has a chapter on the nature of 'contributions' in academic exchanges (why academics offer their work to journals for nothing and why some are a bit sniffy about writing for money!).

All the best,

Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Larry Purss
Sent: 17 October 2011 05:58
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Ceci n'est pas un dollar

Tony,

Andy asked me where I was going with my focus on Shotter's notion of "chiasmic intertwining".

The Occupy Wall Street is a concrete way of reflecting on this question.
David Graeber's concept of "debt" as the central value behind globalization that JUSTIFIES the violence and shattering of a sense of "home" as the result of social relations being organized around the concept of debt. If you "owe" the other you MUST PAY IT BACK.

 Tony, you state,

And monetary value is not an altogether different kind of affair than semantic value or phonemic value -- i.e., Saussure's "valeur."

Is this the "key" or central question, What do I "owe" the other? or "What do we "owe" others?

The value of social relations as "exchange values" that is at the heart of globalization and the violence perpetrated in the "collecting" of debts owed.  If the other person gives you something of value you are indebted to the other and loose freedom.  How deep does this relational concept of debt and being indebted to the other organize our activities?

Chiasmic intertwining is pointing to another way of valuing social relations and is asking the same question,  What do we "owe" each other?  Framing debt as a "particular relational value" rather than an economic question  opens the way to challenge debt as this totalizing way of relating to the other. Challenging the deep seated value that becoming indebted and dependent on the other results in loosing personal freedom and must be resisted at all costs. The notion that dependency  puts you in an exchange
relationship with the other deforms all relations of mutuality.   To be
vulnerable is to be placed in an exchange relation and MUST BE PAID BACK.

Can the Occupy Wall Street movement shift the monetary and economic debt  narrative [who owes what to who] to a moral conversation of "What do we owe each other? as a question fundamentally about values.

I suspect Obama wants to be pushed in this direction

THIS IS A DEBT CRISIS

Larry


On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu> wrote:

> Yes, indeed. Chris Sinha's paper, distributed here not long ago, is 
> good on this too.
>
> Martin
>
> On Oct 16, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Tony Whitson wrote:
>
> >
> > Of course, neither the thought of the dollar bill nor the paper 
> > dollar
> bill itself is actually a DOLLAR.
> >
> > a DOLLAR is a measure of value used for exchange, keeping accounts, etc.
> >
> > And monetary value is not an altogether different kind of affair 
> > than
> semantic value or phonemic value -- i.e., Saussure's "valeur."
> >
> > An excellent source on such matters is the work of David Graeber 
> > (see http://www.amazon.com/David-Graeber/e/B001IQXM5K/ ), who also
> happens to be one of the instigators of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
> >
> > In his latest book on Debt, Graeber argues that Adam Smith's fable 
> > about
> the orgins of money is completely unsupported by any history or 
> anthropology. Graeber's work is full of examples that could be used 
> for exploring issues in this thread.
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