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RE: [xmca] Units of Scientiic Achievement



Punctuated evolution exactly Andy, a theory promoted by Stephen Jay Gould and Niles Eldridge.  Actually I think they called it punctuated equilibrium because they wanted to differentiate it from Ernst Mayr.  There's also something similar in physics I think - called something like ubiquitous information and the idea that a number of seemingly random physical events come together at a specific time to cause a complete change, different from chaos theory I think (probably way off her) because they are not talking about the development of actual systems but the interrelationships of pieces of information leading to a cause of, well, revolutionary change.  Philosophy of science, biological/geological theory, physics, I wonder where else this idea is floating around.  And I wonder if it can be applied to human development.
 
Michael

________________________________

From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden
Sent: Mon 6/20/2011 10:33 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Units of Scientiic Achievement



But the metaphor Michael is calling on, Carol, as I see it is "normal
science" is the incremental, gradual adaptation of a species to its
niche, and remaining much the same for millions of years, and on the
other hand, when a species is under real pressure, you get exactly the
process Kuhn describes in science: rapid diversification and die-outs,
with a distinctly new species species emerging at the end. It's called
"punctuated evolutuion" isn't it?

I find the idea of a formation perfecting itself into extinction attractive.
As to "Intelligent design" - this has nothing to do with proof or
disproof, Carol, but Faith.

Andy
Carol Macdonald wrote:
> Yep, evolutionery theory actually runs counter to "normal" science, but what
> would it take to *disprove* it?  I can't imagine. Intelligent design has
> something of the same problem--you would have to disprove the existence of
> God in order to disprove it.
> Carol
>
> On 20 June 2011 15:43, Michael Glassman <MGlassman@ehe.osu.edu> wrote:
>
>  
>> I think Kuhn's idea of revolution as defining movement between paradigms
>> comes not from speed but from the idea that change is not adaptive nor
>> necessarily progressive, but is instead based on the failure of the dominant
>> paradigm to solve crucial problems (hence problem solving at the unit of
>> analysis).  As a matter of fact my reading is that within Kuhn's framework
>> of change the idea of evolution actually works against change.  This is
>> because those who are most wedded to the paradigm will continuously make the
>> argument that the paradigm itself is evolving and should not be abandoned.
>>  They will always make the argument just one more experiment, just one more
>> twist or turn to the theory and the paradigm is right back on course.
>>  Change though means a complete break, a giving up on the idea that a
>> paradigm can actually adapt, and there is a revolution in thinking.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden
>> Sent: Mon 6/20/2011 9:33 AM
>> To: Carol Macdonald
>> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Units of Scientiic Achievement
>>
>>
>> Well, the literature on that book would probably fill a library so I ought
>> to limit myself.
>>
>> I don't know where the idea of "no revolutions" comes from, but I would
>> have thought that the idea that the dominant paradigm being gradually eroded
>> in the very process of working itself out is pretty suggestive. Maybe the
>> fall of Apartheid didn't live up to the image of a revolution either?
>> Anyway, I think there are a lot of parallels with both Vygotsky and Hegel,
>> so long as one remains within the confines of a closed scientific community.
>> The main thing I was struck by was Kuhn's notion of concepts as problem
>> solution.
>>
>> Vygotsky said it many times, but for example from  "The development of
>> thinking and concept formation in the adolescent" in the Vygotsky Reader:
>> "only during the course of some intelligent activity directed toward the
>> attainment of a specific goal or the solution of a particular problem, can a
>> concept come into being and take form." Or this paragraph:
>>
>>
>>
>>        "In contrast to the process of maturation of instincts and inborn
>> drives, the impelling force which determines the start of any process or
>> initiates any evolving mechanism of behaviour and propels it forward along
>> the path of further development, is not to be found inside, but outside the
>> adolescent and, in this sense, the problems thrown up in front of the
>> maturing adolescent by the society around him, which are connected with the
>> process of growing into the cultural, professional and social life of
>> adults, are extremely important functional aspects which continually depend
>> on the reciprocal conditionality and the organic coherence and internal
>> unity of form and content in the development of thinking."
>>
>> When you say "the cell concept of the concept is there all the time," I
>> presume you mean the paradigm which is generating the problem-solving
>> activity? Yes, until it falls into crisis. So you have an ideal, which first
>> arose as a solution to a total crisis, and then sets up a new project to
>> establish itself and solve its own problems. And thus all the subordinate
>> concepts, its "special principles" (to use Hegel's phrase) appear in the
>> form of problems needing to be solved. But the solution or not of every
>> problem ricochets back on the "cell" as you call it.
>>
>> Does that make sense?
>> Andy
>>
>> Carol Macdonald wrote:
>>
>>        It's me, who never has the reference to hand, but apparently, there
>> aren't actual revolutions,  the dominant paradigm gets gets eroded and
>> eroded over time.
>>
>>        And yes, I can see the unit as the developed concept--but aren't we
>> going to have to describe what happens as this thing is developing? So I
>> don't think it is totally compelling. Of course I may be missing something,
>> and the cell concept of the concept is there all the time?  What do you
>> think, Andy?
>>
>>        Carol
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>        On 20 June 2011 12:11, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>                I have just re-read Kuhn's "Structure of Scientific
>> Revolutions" after many years. As is often the case with a classic like
>> this, it proved to be a lot more nuanced than its reception (or my memory of
>> it).
>>                One of the lines which struck me was this: "the unit of
>> scientific achievement is the solved problem." (p. 169)
>>                In the context of Vygotsky's writing on true concepts and
>> the meaning he gives to "unit" this is very profound. Reading Kuhn from
>> Vygotsky I find very productive.
>>
>>                Andy
>>                --
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*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
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