[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
RE: [xmca] Valsiner and pseudoconcepts
Dear Steve, so sorry I see that in both copies of Valsiner (Andy's and mine)
the two pages are missing. I shall do this tomorrow 15th morning and send
them
Denise
-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
Sent: 13 August 2010 22:12
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Valsiner and pseudoconcepts
That's an interesting angle, Michael. I'll toss this out for those
who have been reading on this more recently - how does Vygotsky relate
magical thinking to syncretic, complexive, pseudoconceptual and
systematic-conceptual thinking? And how does magical thinking fit in
with his thoughts on imaginative and creative thinking? I'd love a
summary of how Vygotsky puts all those together ...
- Steve
On Aug 13, 2010, at 12:16 PM, Michael Glassman wrote:
> Steve,
>
> I think psedo-concept having to do with level 4 might be tied to
> Valsiner's example of magic - black magic and the way that a belief
> in black magic can have enough power to actually lead someone to die
> (people have been known to die because they thought that spells were
> cast on them). Valsiner seems to equate the pseudoconcpet then with
> magical thinking - perhaps Levy-Bruhl's ideas on magical thinking.
> Although he doesn't seem to address the idea from a developmental
> standpoint the way that Piaget does (we escape magical thinking
> through a process of decentration). From what I've read Valsiner
> seems to be thinking that pseudoconcepts - and I am thinking he
> believes them to be part of a larger category will stay with us a
> whole lifetime and have greater power and sway in many concepts and
> scientific concepts. To make a modern point, the idea that because
> it snows during the winter must mean global warming is a hoax is I
> guess what Valsiner would consider a level 4 concept. But it has a
> strong enough hold on people that they are willing to put future
> generatoins in grave danger based on this, and they cannot be swayed
> by scientific concepts.
>
> I'm sure it's more complicated than that - if it's not it should be.
>
> But I am left with a question, who is Vygotsky closer to then,
> Piaget or Valsiner?
>
> Michael
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Steve Gabosch
> Sent: Fri 8/13/2010 2:38 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Valsiner and pseudoconcepts
>
>
>
> Larry, I'm following these discussions, too, at least sketchily. I'm
> still hoping someone has pages 288-289 of that Valsiner chapter where
> he discusses abduction. As for his levels of emotional thinking, I
> find Valsiner's concept of "overgeneralizing feeling fields" thought-
> provoking. I don't always find Valsiner's **explanations** well-
> aligned, insofar as he tries to trace the sociocultural **causes** of
> things - my take on him is he bends the stick way over toward a very
> strong one-sided subjectivist perspective - but his descriptions are
> often very helpful, he raises a lot of interesting ideas and insights,
> and addresses a lot of very important questions (for CHAT) with very
> high scholarship. He is usually a clear and excellent writer, and he
> always has a bundle of provocative ideas to offer. I appreciate his
> work and learn from him. I notice he cites Anna Wierzbicka, who Mike
> pointed me to a few years back. Wierzbicka studied how emotions are
> described in many different languages and reports on some very
> interesting patterns. It is sort of like the study of human facial
> expressions - there is so much there for CHAT to work with - in both
> areas, there appear to be some universal human behavioral patterns
> which beg to be explained from a CHAT perspective as to why they are
> true - or why they are not as they appear. I would so appreciate some
> people in CHAT writing some books on those questions! So much to
> learn. However, on the question that got some of this discussion
> started - I am still not grasping why Valsiner puts pseudoconcepts in
> his level 4. Anyone figured that out?
>
> - Steve
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Larry Purss wrote:
>
>> Paula
>> Thank you for this article explaining Valsiner's 4 levels. I also
>> find it a
>> very interesting framework for trying to understand emotions.
>> I'm also aware of Andy's comments that Valsner is "merely"
>> articulating a
>> "cognitive perspective" of generalization/abstraction and am trying
>> to
>> remain reflective.
>> What I particularly find interesting is the recognition that at the
>> "higher"
>> 4th level of generalization the process of differentiation and
>> reflection of
>> affect becomes DE-differentiated and abstracted [and implicit]
>> This "higher" level is the level of VALUES which have an IMPLICIT
>> constraining determination on the emergence and generation of affect
>> and
>> meaning. This model also offers an explanation of why it is so
>> difficult to
>> have a DIALOGUE about level 2 emotions and meanings. At the level 4
>> de-differentiation of value constructions persons have a
>> generalized/abstracted orientation which is "just a feeling" which is
>> difficult to put into words and articulate.
>>
>> I'm reading the other articles within this thread, but I'm hoping
>> Andy and
>> others add their thoughts on Valsiner. His writings are helping me
>> to
>> understand abduction, pseudoconcepts, and stage/layer accounts of
>> development. His perspective also has significant implications for
>> how we
>> "observe" or "recognize" our relations with others.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> <winmail.dat>_______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca