Re: [xmca] intersubjectivity = Piaget, mentalisation = LSV

[ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org]

Yes Larry:

Very relevant musing indeed.  Mostly for me the issue at hand is 
supporting LSV in chapter six that development happens in starts and fits 
and that relevant instruction leads development.  In one respect where I 
disagree with LSV is that he believed academic instruction was the 
requirement and I believe Michael Cole's cross-cultural studies have 
sufficiently refuted this idea.  My purpose for the initial post was that 
I have recently read both LSV and Fonagy in proximity I was considering 
the similarities between the two.

I am curious Larry do you believe that people have or possess emotions or 
do they belong to the collective culture? 

what do others think?
eric




Larry Purss <lpurss@shaw.ca>
Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
04/22/2010 12:26 PM
Please respond to "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"

 
        To:     "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: [xmca] intersubjectivity = Piaget, mentalisation = LSV


Eric
My question is really partly my process of reflection on these topics as I 
attempt to development more coherence on these topics.
In that spriit of inquiry the place of "attachment" in becoming human  is 
for me a central preoccupation. 
When Valsinger mentions goal directed activity I'm wondering if one of the 
basic central goals around which becoming human PIVOTS is the goal of 
ENGAGEMENT [recognition and response]
It seems to me that "attachment" theory is centrally about the tension and 
movement of withdrawal and engagement..  This movement is goal directed 
and motivating.

At a moral level of discourse how do we create/construct institutional 
contexts where we facilitate more engagement and less withdrawal.  I 
believe what is required are more symmetrical relational patterns of 
participation.
Eric I was really using your comments as an opportunity to continue to 
muse on this theme.

Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:06 am
Subject: Re: [xmca] intersubjectivity = Piaget, mentalisation = LSV
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>

> Larry: 
> 
> You misunderstood me.  Fogady et al state in their artilcle 
> that infants 
> develop (not have) understandings of emotions based upon their 
> attachment 
> to caregivers.  Piaget would believe that emotions are 
> innate.  I agree 
> with Fogady and believe emotions to develop within the infant 
> based upon 
> their interactions with caregivers.  I apologize for any 
> miscommunication. 
>  I wrote the post quickly (as I usually do) and perhaps it 
> is easily 
> misinterpreted.
> 
> My understanding of intersubjectivitly theory is that it 
> preconceives 
> humans with the innate ability of empathy whereas mentalization 
> theory 
> summizes that empathy is a developed "skill" via attachment with 
> cargivers.  ala Valsiner I would go so far as to say that 
> this development 
> occurs in a goal directed activity (i.e. feeding, playing peek-a-
> boo, etc)
> 
> eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Larry Purss <lpurss@shaw.ca>
> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> 04/22/2010 09:21 AM
> Please respond to "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> 
> 
> 
> To:     "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" 
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>        cc: 
> 
> Subject:        Re: [xmca] 
> intersubjectivity = Piaget, mentalisation = LSV
> 
> 
> Eric
> You mention infants HAVE EMOTIONS based upon attachment. 
> You also mention intersubjectivity is the process of seeing 
> other persons 
> point of view.
> 
> I want to open dialogue and think out loud as I RESPOND. 
> When we say that infants HAVE emotions, [subjective 
> phenomenology] I 
> struggle with the notion of emotions as HAVING A RELATIONSHIP 
> that moves 
> us in a process of recognition and response. This movement or e-
> motion 
> emphasizes SYMMETRICAL ENGAGEMENT through ATTUNEMENT.
> 
> Intersubjectivity theory can also be understood NOT as SEEING 
> the other 
> person's point of view [theory of mind] but rather as attunement 
> and 
> engagement [PERCEIVED and EXPERIENCED communication BETWEEN self 
> and other
> 
> Larry
> 
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca


_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca