Further historical thoughts on this thread Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?

["lpurss" <lpurss@shaw.ca>]

Hi Achilles, Andy, Mike, and others
I know this thread was dropped a week ago but it has continued to turn over
in my mind.
I've attached an article by Danzinger that elaborates on the themes of this
thread and introduced a framework I thought was interesting.
He suggests when we study the history and evolution of psychological and
discursive objects we should consider 3 separated but interweaving levels of
analysis.
He prefers the term epistemic objects to discursive objects as the article
explains.
The 3  frameworks are 1) The person's biography  2) the situated social
practices in which the epistemic objects had their historical development
and 3) the discursive history of the formation of the psychological object.
He believes that in our contemporary theorizing we are biasing the
discursive and personal biographical frames and under theorizing the
historical social practices.

Achilles, when you elaborated the complexity of the number of variables that
must be considered when exploring the emergence and development of a
"tradition"
it seemed overwhelming.  Danzinger's proposal is one possible "map" for
differentiating various strands and then interweaving them together.
What do you think of the article
Larry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mike cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com>
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?


Very interesting thread.
I was struck by the following, Achilles:
You write
He thought that a better way is dialog itself, the true is not with me, not
with you, and not with nobody and/or with everybody - the truth can
historicaly emerge in.....

This is very reminiscent of Vygotsky way of talking about consciousness at
the end of Thinking and Speech.

mike

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi Larry,I think that all you said is about many crucial problems to us,
> not only related to the history of a (plural) "way of thinking" in
> psychology, but related to all our historical-cultural conditions as human
> beings too. Vygotsky, I understand loved the the "Truth", and the search
for
> the "Truth", it is something that we can see in one of his letters to
Luria
> (1926), after even quoted by Valsiner and van der Veer, and by Veresov
too:
> "For me the primary question is the question of method, that is for me the
> question of truth…" - but even understand the actual meaning of such a
word
> as "truth" is not a easy task, because of the own polissemic character of
> it, because there is obstinate fights about what this word can mean in
> different social contexts, because this meaning is not independent from a
> "second" (a concrete situated interlocutor) and from a "third" (an
anonymous
> and generic social interlocutor in the time in that this word is said and
> beyond, projecting it in time, in future, in the "Great Temporality" - in
> Bakhtin words again)... But, in my naive reading, I guess that the was, at
> least two traditions in Vygotsky's concept of "truth", the spinozian (with
> the statement that there is nothing totally unkowing in Nature, i.e., in
all
> that exist, in all that embraces reality), and, of course, the marxian
(with
> the statement that the question of objective truth is not only a
discursive
> rhetoric task, but mainly a question of praxis, therefore a question of
> actual transformation of the reality we try to explain with our words)...
> Then if Vygotsky did not leaves out the concept and the desire of a truth,
I
> guess this is not in a classical, platonic and/or scholastic fashion
> (tradition?) to approach this problem. I understand that this is not a
> peripheral problem in Vygotsky's though and project to historical-cultural
> psychology. But this can create several disputes, inside the arena of the
> signs "truth", "method", and even "heuristics", for sure. The heuristic
> problem, in sense of construction of paths to construct knowledge about
> human condition and/or permanent transformation of that (social)condition,
> the methodological problem, in the same sense, seems to be almost always
in
> the forefront in Vygotsky's concerns... If we can understand better the
> social (complex, non-linear) formation of a trend of thinking in twenty
> century Russian (and International) psychology, it is reasonable suppose
> that we would can understand better another cultural collective movements
of
> creation of discourses and practices mediated by them. Particularly I
wonder
> that dialogic criteria to search the "truth" is very useful too. Bakhtin,
in
> this sense, is against not only "dogmatic" concept of truth, but even
> against "relativistic" one... He though that a better way is dialog
itself,
> the true is not with me, not with you, and not with nobody an/or with
> everybody - the truth can historicaly emerges in dialogical process... In
> this sense, the different versions for the historical facts must not be
> simply sawed as many equally true versions, in their inner logic and
> structure all equally valid (relativistic approach), nor a question
> exclusively about there are people lying when other are telling the real
and
> unquestionable truth (dogmatic approach) - but the fight between different
> versions itself can be the own embodiment of the possible historical truth
> to construct. But methodologically it is really not easy, to put in fight
> that confrontation of the versions of the facts, even more many facts are
> not like a meteorological happening to which people can say "It was a
little
> breath" and/or "it was a big torment" and then we must return to objective
> fact to prove two versions and find the real true. Of course in history,
in
> psychology, the things are not in this fashion, because the own "versions"
> becomes constitutive of the "facts" (i.e. what we call "version" is a
> "discursive fact", an "speech act", etc.), and we are not in a very
> comfortable position to decide. The textual analysis, the hermeneutic and
> exegetic tools are very important and very useful and absolutely necessary
> in this impossible mission, of course. But even this methodology to
> understand the texts is constituted by some believes that we have/acquire
> about what is the "text", what is "meaning", what is "reality", "truth"
and
> "lies", and who is the "subject" that produces this things in his/her
social
> relations, cultural contexts, etc... These believes about how to do our
> hermeneutic task are historically constituted too, are not outside
history,
> supra-positioned respect the own text, in any sense, this exegetical
> tradition is some kind of recreation of original texts too, and a new
verse
> to the play that must goes on, a part of the "tradition" (and
contradiction)
> too. Self-consciousness of this exegetic limit (to be a historical been in
> the same time when we are trying to decode historical encrypted messages)
> seems to be an interesting step... Because in future can will exist many
> researchers telling about the lies we are just telling today. Even so, in
a
> "vygotskian tradition" we can not absolutely abdicate the quest for
truth...
> To do this can be to make a choice that will represent a more deep rupture
> with the former project (if the existence of a "project" is not only an
> illusion of my own mind), in my modest opinion.Achilles
> > Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:36:28 -0800
> > From: lpurss@shaw.ca
> > Subject: Re:  Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >
> > Hi Achilles
> >
> > Your questions are fascinating as an inquiry of the constructs or
> heuristic processes of emerging "traditions" "schools of thought"
> "paradigms" "Discourses" as cultural patterns which we articulate and
> INHABIT.
> > When you mention Freud, the extensive literature that has developed
> exploring the formation of a "tradition" of psychoanalysis as a
sociological
> and cultural "way of knowing" is informative of epistemological ways of
> creating knowledge. How different versions of the "truth"are contested and
> "true believers" who are arguing for a specific version (as "dogma")  make
> validity claims  of CERTAINTY for their "true" version (as they believe
> Freud saw the world) is a process of narrative construction worth studying
> in its own right. In fact the sociology of knowledge is a "tradition which
> does just that.
> > In exploring Vygotsky's contribution to a new emerging "perspective" or
> vantage point from which to "see" human "nature" the same processes are at
> PLAY.
> >
> > The metaphor that best captures the DYNAMIC PROCESS at play in the
> creation or construction of "traditions" seems to be the metaphor of
> CONVERSATION (as the process of sharing particular perspectives not to
> confirm your particular perspective but as a conscious process that a
THIRD
> perspective that is NOVEL and emerges within the open space of the
> conversation is constructed and each participants version (which is held
> tentatively as a FALLIBLE perspective) is enlarged as each conversant's
> "horizon of understanding" is expanded.
> > The part that I'm curious about (in my ZPD) is how to create social
> structures where this fallible position can be nurtured and the vitality
of
> conversation as creating THIRDNESS replaces the need for "traditions" as
> locations of dogma as "truth".
> > It is this SENSIBILITY towards "knowing" within the CHAT collective (in
> contrast to SENSE) that I appreciate so much as a place which invites an
> open space to generate THIRDNESS. ( I apologize if I'm using this term in
a
> way that muddles other conceptions of thirdness such as Peirce)
"Thirdness"
> as a spirit of inquiry does capture the spirit of NOVELTY created in
> communities of inquiry.
> > It also helps to explain when thirdness collapses into CERTAINTY and
> scholars such as Freud or Vygotsky get locked into dogmatic traditions.
> > The question to be answered is how do we keep "traditions" open to
> novelty in a spirit of thirdness.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bella Kotik-Friedgut <bella.kotik@gmail.com>
> > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:03 am
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > To: lchcmike@gmail.com, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > > As a student I took part in Leontjev's course on geleral
> > > psychology and the
> > > his distancing was not obvious (at least for us as students
> > > because one of
> > > the compulsory tasks was to read "  Thinking and Speech"
> > > and to be examined
> > > fully on one book as well as another task to read Leontjev;s
> > > "Problems of
> > > development of mind") As for the tradition: Luria's "Basics of
> > > Neuropsychology" is based on Vygotsky's ideas  quite
> > > explicitly. Is this an
> > > expression of cultural-historical tradition?
> > >
> > > Bella Kotik
> > > .
> > > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 5:57 AM, mike cole
> > > <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Achilles. I think we have lived to witness exactly "non-liner
> > > genetic> course
> > > > or history."  For many complex reasons Vygotsky "missed"
> > > the dominant trend
> > > > of his times, behaviorism/psychoanalysis" in a way that
> > > anticipated the
> > > > turn
> > > > away from Piaget (who did not become "mainstream" in USA until late
> > > > 1950's-60's) and banishment of Freud from mainstream
> > > psychology to cultural
> > > > studies circles and, in watered down fashion, human potential
> > > movements) so
> > > > that when
> > > > Toulmin wrote about "The mozart of psychology" his clearly
> > > idiocyncratic> interpretation fell like a match into a pool of
> > > gasoline (that looked for
> > > > all the world like a pool of water). The "Vygotsky
> > > > explosion" that many, such as Laszlo Garai in Hungary have
> > > written about,
> > > > and that so irritate many, was the result.
> > > >
> > > > Its really a fascinating process to have lived through,
> > > contributed to,
> > > > been guilty of, etc.
> > > >
> > > > And look at one of its consequences. We chatter across the
> > > globe as easily,
> > > > or more easily, than we get a loaf of bread...... while others
> > > starve.>
> > > > Non linear for sure.
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > >  achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not historicist, but I can remember something from
> > > Benjamin about
> > > > > "tradition" x "conservationism" ... That tradition is not always
> > > > > conservative nor authoritarian, there are democratic, dialogical,
> > > > > revolutionary traditions too... I guess - in addition - that
> > > perhaps> > something like a "cultural tradition" (any cultural
> > > tradition, in diverse
> > > > > fields of society collective actions) can have a non-liner
> > > genetic course
> > > > or
> > > > > history... I dont know if this is terminologically possible
> > > or adequate.
> > > > But
> > > > > a psychological theory, and/or approach, and/or
> > > "perspective" (has some
> > > > > people tell here in Brazil: "historical-cultural
> > > perspective") - can not
> > > > be
> > > > > like a dogmatic religious tradition (despite I have any
> > > doubts if even
> > > > > religions can be strictly dogmatic all the time without any
> > > secular> > influences and changes to dialog with broader
> > > cultural contexts, etc.).
> > > > In
> > > > > this sense neither behaviorism or psychoanalysis could be
> > > understood as
> > > > an
> > > > > strict "tradition" (there was fights and ruptures all the time,
> > > > dissidences,
> > > > > detours, new trends, and interpretations, etc.). Scientific
> > > thought> > presupposes changes as a sine qua non condition of
> > > its own existence...
> > > > Of
> > > > > course, in the field of the Vygotsky's intelectual,
> > > cultural, legacy
> > > > > ("puzzle kind" legacy) the discontinuous, intermittent, sometimes
> > > > enigmatic,
> > > > > character of the history of this "(non)tradition" it is very
> > > eminent.> There
> > > > > are several important intellectual disputes about the "correct
> > > > > interpretation", the best exegetic tools, etc. But how can
> > > we name this
> > > > > historical process? Is there something in this that can have
> > > the same
> > > > name?
> > > > > Every new name means an actual paradigmatic rupture? A name
> > > never can be
> > > > > only one meaning, of course. The sample of the name of the
> > > Journal is
> > > > really
> > > > > worthwhile - a kind of "family name" (as "complex" in
> > > thought and
> > > > language
> > > > > relations). People sometimes use names, words, has sign of some
> > > > collective
> > > > > identity, to be included in a broader common troupe of
> > > social actors...
> > > > this
> > > > > is far to be something harmonious or ideally synergistic,
> > > but exist some
> > > > > need to stay in touch with persons that have some common
> > > interests,> mainly
> > > > > common values, as Mike said. If this can be named a
> > > tradition, now I
> > > > already
> > > > > don't if is the more important question.
> > > > > Achilles.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:26:30 -0800
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps we can get the shif book translated if it is
> > > interesting. Does
> > > > it
> > > > > > exist in Russian, Anton?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I disagree with only one part of what you say about
> > > > "cultural-historical"
> > > > > > school never existing. In the period from about 1956
> > > following Stalin's
> > > > > > death, to the death of Luria and Leontiev, there was an
> > > identifiable> > group
> > > > > > of people who met together, talked together, shared
> > > certain ideas and
> > > > > > values. They were also quite influential as heads of some
> > > departments> and
> > > > > > institutes. They did not all agree with each other
> > > (Achille's evocation
> > > > > of
> > > > > > family strikes me as about right) and Leontiev was both
> > > feared and
> > > > > distanced
> > > > > > from the others, but they maintained a kind of uneasy
> > > alliance. Here I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > include
> > > > > > Luria, Zaporzhets, Elkonin, Slavina, Morozova, and perhaps
> > > a few
> > > > others.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is a great irony that NOW there is a journal of
> > > cultural-historical
> > > > > > psychology in Russia. But perhaps, not a bad thing.
> > > > > > mike (socio-cultural-historical activity scholar) :-))
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I really understand... Maybe we can say that Vygotsky
> > > himself was
> > > > > notever
> > > > > > > following his own "project"... In some documents
> > > (letters) he
> > > > > expresshis
> > > > > > > desire to dedicate to an species of "cause", the
> > > "reconstruction of
> > > > > > > allpsychological science, building an unified approach,
> > > but I really
> > > > > feel
> > > > > > > that therewas no "tradition" stricto sensu, nor no "vigotskian
> > > > school"
> > > > > in a
> > > > > > > very definitefashion... Even more to read Vygotsky is
> > > hard exegetical
> > > > > task,
> > > > > > > his all workseems to be a kind of complex million pieces
> > > puzzle, at
> > > > > least
> > > > > > > for us non Russianreaders... I dont know... But when
> > > everybody lies,
> > > > we
> > > > > need
> > > > > > > to think aboutmethodological tools to define if there is
> > > a possible
> > > > > > > differentiation betweenlies and truth, or we can be
> > > satisfied with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > impossibility of any truth inany social discourse... In
> > > capitalists> > liberal
> > > > > > > regimes, people can tell some liesin order to satisfy
> > > editorial needs
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > market demands too... financial researchfounds to their(our)
> > > > projects,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > so on. Then, nobody is without guilt... inthis great
> > > social game for
> > > > > > > personal success in unequal power relationships, between
> > > nations,> > between
> > > > > > > institutions, between groups, persons, or evenbetween
> > > brothers at the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > home...
> > > > > > > :-(
> > > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:35:51 -0800
> > > > > > > > From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Same thing. No answer. Special research needed.
> > > Everybody lies.
> > > > From
> > > > > > > 1930s -- onwards.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also, note: "Cultural-historical tradition" sensu
> > > Vygotsky never
> > > > > existed.
> > > > > > > And hardly exists today.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior
> > > <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 12:59:24 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anton,
> > > > > > > > This sounds much better! :-)Thank you very much. And
> > > about this
> > > > > > > title?Психология глухих. (Под ред. И.М. Соловьева, Ж.И.
> > > Шиф, Т.В.
> > > > > Розановой
> > > > > > > и Н.В. Яшковой), М., 1971.Not already from the 1930s...
> > > What you
> > > > > recommends?
> > > > > > > I found an recent Russian publication from 2006,{
> > > > > > > http://bookseller.ru/book.php?n=1454} but I did not feel
> > > secure to
> > > > > order
> > > > > > > in my blind condition tounderstand the book importance
> > > or relation to
> > > > > > > historical-cultural tradition...
> > > > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:48:14 -0800
> > > > > > > > > From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in
> > > English?> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > RE: Its important to know that it is not near to
> > > Vygotsky's> trends.
> > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I never said so. I guess I meant to state that the
> > > connection is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > obvious and requires substantial textual analysis.
> > > Especially so,
> > > > given
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > deliberately cryptic style of writing in Soviet
> > > Psychology from the
> > > > > 1930s
> > > > > > > onwards...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior
> > > <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 12:12:00 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in
> > > English?> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I understand.Thank you very much.I saw that there is
> > > something> from
> > > > > her
> > > > > > > about deaf psychology, for instance, etc.Its important
> > > to know that
> > > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > not near to Vygotsky's trends.
> > > > > > > > > Best.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:10:21 -0800
> > > > > > > > > > From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in
> > > English?> > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I personally strongly doubt any translation of
> > > this book ever
> > > > > > > existed.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Good luck anyway!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -- However, there is other stuff by Shif available
> > > in English,
> > > > > but it
> > > > > > > is hardly related to her Leningrad work and represent
> > > her later
> > > > Moscow
> > > > > work
> > > > > > > in defectology...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior
> > > <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>> > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 2:37:26 AM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi XMCA
> > > > > > > > > > people…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In order to
> > > > > > > > > > help another friend of mine, biologist, studying
> > > scientific> > concepts
> > > > > > > > > > development, I’m wonder if you have any notice
> > > about English
> > > > > > > (Spanish, French,
> > > > > > > > > > etc.) publication from the following text:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Shif, J. I. “Razvitie nauchnykh ponyatii u schko’nika:
> > > > > > > > > > Issledovanie k voprosu umstvenogo razvitiya
> > > shkol’nika pri
> > > > > obuchenii
> > > > > > > > > > obshchestvovedeniyu” [The development of
> > > scientific concepts in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > school
> > > > > > > > > > child: The investigation of intellectual
> > > development of the
> > > > > school
> > > > > > > child in
> > > > > > > > > > social science instruction]. Moscow – Leningrad:
> > > > Gosudarstvennoe
> > > > > > > > > > Uchebno-Pedagicheskoe Izdatel’stvo. 1935.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I’m trying
> > > > > > > > > > the Russian high now, but we are not so prepared
> > > to actually
> > > > > > > translate Russian so
> > > > > > > > > > soon, without a huge time spending… And there are
> > > many other
> > > > > Russian
> > > > > > > needs
> > > > > > > > > > prior at the schedule, most of that already
> > > provide thanks you
> > > > > all.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you have any notice... :-)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > > > > > very much. Good 2010 for all.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Best
> > > > > > > > > > wishes.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > O Novo Windows 7 funciona do jeito que você quer.
> > > Clique aqui
> > > > > para
> > > > > > > conhecer!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windows7/default.html?WT.mc_id=1539_______________________________________________>
> > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > __________________________________________________________________> >
>
> > > > > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier.
> > > >  Optimized
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > Yahoo!  Get it Now for Free! at
> > > > > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________> > >
> > > > Deixe seu computador compatível com a sua vida. Clique para
> > > > > conhecer o
> > > > > > > Windows 7!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windows7/default.html?WT.mc_id=1539_______________________________________________>
> > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > __________________________________________________________________> >
>
> > > > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new
> > > > Internet
> > > > > > > Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at
> > > > > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________> > >
> > > Agora é fácil compartilhar fotos no Messenger: solte todas na
> > > > > janelinha.
> > > > > > > Veja como!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/tip.aspx/view/77?product=2&ocid=CRM-WindowsLive:dicaCompartilhamentoFotos:Tagline:WLCRM:On:WL:pt-BR:Messenger
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Connect with friends from any web browser - no
> > > download required.
> > > > Try
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at
> > > > > > > http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________> > >
> > O Novo Windows 7 funciona do jeito que você quer. Clique aqui para
> > > > > > > conhecer!
> > > > > > >
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windows7/default.html?WT.mc_id=1539> >
> > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > O Novo Windows 7 funciona do jeito que você quer. Clique
> > > aqui para
> > > > > conhecer!
> > > > >
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windows7/default.html?WT.mc_id=1539> >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Com o Windows 7 nenhum arquivo vai se esconder de você. Clique para
> conhecer !
> http://www.microsoft.com/brasil/windows7/default.html?WT.mc_id=1539
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
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xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca

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