RE: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish: ISI practices

A few things in response to this email and others:

First, I recognize that impact rankings are insufficient in many ways, much
like the US News and World Report university rankings, which also are gamed
by institutions (e.g., waiving application fees to increase applications
solely for the purpose of rejecting more applicants make the school appear
more competitive). Believe me, I know that the system is flawed, as are most
systems that make much of a handful of indicators.

At the same time, the journals I think highly of and read do tend to get
high impact scores, so the impact rankings are not insignificant. Like an
SAT score on an application, it doesn't mean everything, but it also doesn't
mean nothing.

As to how I use an impact score on a tenure/promotion review: I tend to
review cases in which many people with decision-making power are not
entirely familiar with the candidate's field. My own field is English
Education, and so I review a lot of English Ed faculty who tend to be in one
of two types of departments, or activity settings if you will: An English
department, where the person occupies the 3rd of 3 status tiers (English
literature rules, Composition and Rhetoric is a minor field, and English Ed
is the dog who gets kicked at the end of a bad day--the closer a faculty
member is to the rank-and-file proletariat, the lower the status of the
position). In a College of Education, most English Ed faculty are in a
Curriculum and Instruction department, which takes the "Noah's Ark" approach
of housing two of every kind: two Social Studies Ed (one secondary, one
elementary), two English Ed, and so on. The people in Mathematics Ed might
not know the relative status of the journals and English Ed faculty member
might know, so I profile each journal. Here are some samples. Not all
include an impact factor, because not all journals are on the list. The idea
is to include impact factor as part of the review of each journal. Because I
write a lot of reviews of t/p cases (about 40 thus far), I maintain a
journal databank so that I don’t have to reinvent the wheel with each
evaluation I write, which has numbered as many as 9 in one year.

OK, here are some journals I've profiled that include impact rankings. I'll
throw in one for which I don't have an impact ranking just for purposes of
contrast:

The American Journal of Education is a high-stature journal edited at the
University of Chicago and published by the University of Chicago Press.
Throughout its history—and it has been published consecutively since 1891—it
has been a premier journal, often with a 10% acceptance rate or less. I am
perhaps biased in my high regard for AJE, having earned my M.A.T. and Ph.D.
at the University of Chicago, having served on the journal’s editorial
board, and having published two articles and a book review in it myself. But
I believe that it ranks among the best general-interest education journals,
along with Teachers College Record, Harvard Educational Review, American
Educational Research Journal, and a select handful of other journals.
Average rank in impact factor among all educational research journals,
1999-2005: 53rd; Highest rank: #18 (see
http://www.sciedu.ncue.edu.tw/board_docs/SSCI2005-1999.doc)

Anthropology and Education Quarterly is the journal of the Council on
Anthropology and Education, a professional association of anthropologists
and educational researchers affiliated with the American Anthropological
Association. It is a peer-reviewed, quarterly journal with a distinguished
reputation. According to the journal website, in 2003 the editors accepted
11% of manuscripts submitted for review (including both initial submissions
and revised and resubmitted papers), making it among the field’s most highly
selective journals. Average rank in impact factor among all educational
research journals, 1999-2005: 61.67th; Highest rank: #37 (see
http://www.sciedu.ncue.edu.tw/board_docs/SSCI2005-1999.doc)

College Composition and Communication is a refereed journal published by the
National Council of Teachers of English with an acceptance rate between
10%-25%. I haven’t read this journal is quite a few years, but it is the
journal for scholars concerned with writing instruction and assessment at
the university level. The Conference on College Composition and
Communication, which sponsors the journal, holds the field’s primary annual
meeting for first-year composition faculty and others interested in
composition theory and its politics.

Critical Inquiry in Language Studies: An International Journal is the
peer-reviewed, quarterly official journal of the International Society for
Language Studies. It identifies its contributions as multidisciplinary and
international, and accepts about 20% of submitted articles. According to its
website, “CILS seeks manuscripts that present original research on issues of
language, power, and community within educational, political, and
sociocultural contexts with broader reference to international and/or
historical perspective. Equally welcome are manuscripts that address the
development of emergent research paradigms and methodology related to
language studies. Though CILS seeks to present a balance of research from
contributing disciplines, interdisciplinary foci are encouraged.” The
journal boasts an impressive editorial board, including Michael Apple,
Dennis Baron, Charles Bazerman, Sari Knopp Biklen, Carole Edelsky, James
Gee, James Lantolf, Cynthia Lewis, Allan Luke, Donaldo Macedo, Alastair
Pennycook, Guadalupe Valdés, and other luminaries. Although I am not
familiar with the journal, its profile suggests that it is a journal of some
stature, and that a publication listing with CILS is an asset to one’s
curriculum vita.

Curriculum Inquiry is a highly regarded “niche” journal (i.e., one that
features a particular research topic) published by Blackwood, a respectable
publisher of educational materials. I am not familiar with this journal
other than by reputation, but found some impressive encomium by
distinguished researchers at the journal’s website:
"One of the top general education journals. It is the finest publication in
the English speaking world that focuses on curriculum planning, teaching and
evaluation."
Elliot Eisner, Stanford University, USA
"One of the most lively and stimulating journals. Its dedication to
exploring issues and pursuing debates, across a wide range of issues, is
second to none. "
Martyn Hammersley, Open University, UK
"One of the few education journals to open up contemporary theoretical
perspective on general education."
Maxine Greene, Columbia University, USA
Given the stature of these commentators, it would be hard to regard
Curriculum Inquiry as anything but a powerhouse journal in the area of
curriculum studies. Average rank in impact factor among all educational
research journals, 1999-2005: 79.16th; Highest rank: #66 (see
http://www.sciedu.ncue.edu.tw/board_docs/SSCI2005-1999.doc)

Peter Smagorinsky
The University of Georgia
125 Aderhold Hall
Athens, GA 30602
smago@uga.edu/phone:706-542-4507
http://www.coe.uga.edu/lle/faculty/smagorinsky/index.html

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
Behalf Of Eugene Matusov
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 6:23 PM
To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
Cc: jewett@udel.edu; 'UD-PIG'; 'Tonya Gau Bartell'; 'Bob Hampel';
rosa@udel.edu; rhayes@mundo-r.com
Subject: RE: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish: ISI practices

Dear XMCA folks--

I'm also concerned with the apparent proliferation of the ISI web of
knowledge practices of rating academic journals for evaluation of
scholarship. I'm not very knowledgeable about it and do not have firsthand
experience of it (fortunately for me!) but I have heard from my foreign
colleagues their concerns and stories about the proliferation of the ISI in
the academia.

Here I want to offer my tentative analysis of the ISI practice using what I
call "questionable claims." These are my claims based on my limited
experiences of participation in academia, observations, stories of my
colleagues, rumors, speculations and so on. I treat them cautiously because
although they may sound very reasonable (at least for me), they can be
partially or fully wrong.

Questionable claim#1. Academic practice involves summative assessment of a
scientist's contributions to the field of the scientist specialization and
(claimed) expertise. These summative assessments are often both qualitative
and quantitative by their nature. Like any summative assessment, summative
assessments in the academia are about sorting people on success and failure.
Institutionally recognized successes provide the person with access to
social goodies while institutionally recognized failures block this access.
My observation on the US academia suggests the following commonly occurring
summative assessments in the institutional academia:

A. Defended vs. non-defended dissertation;

B. Getting vs. not getting an academic job;

C. Renewal vs. non-renewal a contract;

D. Getting tenure vs. not getting tenure;

E. Getting promotion vs. not getting promotion;

F. Publishing vs. non-publishing a scholarly manuscript in a recognized
publication source (a peer-reviewed journal, book, and so on);

G. Getting vs. not getting a research grant;

H. Getting good vs. bad annual evaluation form the department
administration (in my institution, this is probably least consequential
summative assessment);

I. Did I miss something?

Many (but not all) of the listed summative assessments depend on 1F, namely,
academic publications. That is why “publish or perish” is a rather accurate
motto. Interestingly enough, but even dissertation defense can be linked to
publications. For example, in Norway (University of Bergen), I observed
dissertation defense that required publication of 3 journals in selected
peer-reviewed academic (international or nation) journals. These
publications, republished in a special brochure with some explanations,
constitute the dissertation itself. But as far as I know, it is not a
practice in US (am I wrong?).

Questionable claim#2. Summative assessment is unavoidable and good for the
science practice for the following reasons:

A. “Dead wood”: It is a good idea for the practice of science (and arguably
academic teaching – but this is even more questionable) to weed out people
who do not do science;

B. “Limited resources”: Since resources are always limited, it is a good
idea to prioritize supporting highly productive, important, and/or promising
scientists and their research programs over less or non productive,
important, and/or promising ones;

C. “Accountability”: The society puts its trust and needed resources in the
science practice and, thus, it legitimately expects that somebody would
supervise the science practice delivering on its promise of its social
contract with the society;

D. “Quality of scholarship discourse”: It is arguably a good idea for the
science practice itself to involve scientists in debating what constitutes
the quality of their scholarship;

E. “Focus”. Summative assessment creates necessary focus of what texts,
ideas, and people are important and worth attention from others and
resources;

F. “Scientific reputation.” Summative assessment can help create and enact
scientific reputations needed for effective science making;

G. “Professionalization of science.” If the science practice wants to
remain professional and recognized as such by the society, it should have
self-policing in a form of summative assessments;

H. Did I miss something?

Thus, if I’m correct that there is a great extrinsic and intrinsic need for
summative assessments of scholars’ contributions, the issue is not whether
to do or not but by whom and how.

Questionable claim#3. Summative assessment can be very painful for the
assessed scholar and detrimental for the science practice at large:

A. “Pain and distraction”. Since summative assessment sorts people for
those who get social goodies and those who will be denied these goodies;
professional, psychological, social, and economic well-being of the assessed
(and often their families) can be in jeopardy. It often leads to anxiety,
depression, and pain distracting the assessed scientists (and their
environment) from the science making practice itself (and other related
professional practices);

B. “Error#1 demoralization”. There is always a possibility that one who
deserves the social goodies won’t get them as a result of the summative
assessment;

C. “Error#2 demoralization”. There is always a possibility that one who
does not deserve the social goodies will get them as a result of the
summative assessment;

D. “Abuse”. There is always a possibility that summative assessment can be
diverted by personal, social, or political interests that are nothing to do
with the summative assessment of the scholar’s contributions to the academic
field (this may include, for example, paradigm wars, political suppression
of scientific results, and even sexual harassment);

E. “Culture of fear”. Summative assessment creates a culture of fear in
scientific communities and institutions, in which people are afraid to do
and to say what they want to (or even must) do and say because they are too
concerned (often justifiably) that what they do and say may affect their
summative assessments performed by others near them;

F. “Long term contributions”. Sometimes it takes long time for a particular
contribution to mature and to be recognized by a scientific community;

G. “Reducing risks, innovations, and creativity by conforming to the status
quo”. Summative assessment often pushes scholars to play safe by not taking
risks and by stifling their own creativity because they are afraid that
radical innovations in their scholarship might not be recognized by many who
will perform the summative assessment or in time of the assessment;

H. “Quality vs. quantity: Paper tiger.” It is difficult to decide how fully
to take into account the quality and quantity of someone’s scholarship.
Summative assessment often forces scholars to do a lot of research papers
rather than to invest time and efforts on a few or even one but better
quality. There is also possible proliferation of a community of scholarly
writers over scholarly readers;

I. “Medium bias”. Scientific contributions are often reduced to published
texts authored by the assessed scholars. Individual authorship is
prioritized over collective. However, it can be argued (and shown through
anecdotes) that other contributions (such as oral or through certain
actions) can be very important for the science practice. These contributions
are not often appreciated and evaluated by existing summative assessments;

J. “Inhibition of learning”. Summative assessments, focused on revealing
and punishing the candidate’s deficits, makes mistake-making, the foundation
of any learning, costly. People often inhibit their own learning by hiding
their mistakes and not asking for help;

K. “Culture of distrust and adversary”. Being summatively assessed by
colleagues can easily create long lasting adversaries in scientific
communities (it is often painful to know that some of your colleagues think
that your scholarship is mediocre);

L. “Quality is a part of scholarship.” Defining the quality of scholarship
and what the scholarship is are a part of scholarship itself. Summative
assessment itself has to be scrutinized by the scientific discourse (and
thus, arguably stop being summative assessment);

M. “Future is unpredictable.” Past performance cannot always predict future
performance in both directions: successful past performance may lead to poor
future performance and poor past performance can lead to excellent future
performance;

N. Did I forget something?

Questionable claim#4. There are three major types of summative assessment:

A. Mainly judgment-based (e.g., professional peer review);

B. Mainly procedure-based (e.g., the ISI web of knowledge rating of
journals and citation rates of the candidate’s publications can be used for
developing a formula calculating “the contribution score” of the candidate.
If the score is higher than the certain numerical criterion, the candidate
is successful, if not; he or she fails the evaluation. As far as I know, a
similar procedure-based system is used in Spain. Am I right?);

C. Judgment-procedure hybrid (e.g., the candidates’ publications can be
limited to those published in “respectful journals” usually defined by the
ISI practice – i.e., a procedure-based model, -- but those publications are
still professionally peer-reviewed by recognized experts, -- i.e., a
judgment-based model).

Peter, you wrote, “I really can't explain or defend the charts and how
they're compiled; I simply provide one that I use when evaluating
tenure/promotion cases.” Can you describe, please, how do you use the ISI to
do summative assessments in your institution (e.g., to evaluate
tenure/promotion cases)?

In my institution, School of Education at the University of Delaware,
summative assessments are mainly judgment-based. My colleague Bob Hampel and
I wrote recently a paper on this issue at
http://www.aaup.org/AAUP/pubsres/academe/2008/JF/Feat/matu.htm

Questionable claim#5. A procedural model of summative assessment in academia
has several advantages over a judgment-based model:

A. Summative assessments and following administrative decisions can be made
by people alienated from the field of the candidate or even by non-scholars
(i.e., administrators);

B. It is time, effort, and people effective (however, the ISI has to be
paid for the data);

C. It does not rely on accurate identification of experts in the field of
the candidate’s specialization (and/or paradigm);

D. It is impersonal and alienated (this is often confused with
“objectivity”) and as a consequence it has following benefits:

a. It is legally defensible;

b. It is always procedurally fair and perceptually less arbitrary from case
to case (it be not necessarily true in reality since the biases of the ISI
are hidden and not transparent);

c. It is psychologically and socially safer (imagine that you failed some
institutional summative assessment – it is probably much easier for you
psychologically and socially blame some kind of impersonal procedure giving
you a lower score -- than your colleagues who personally and professionally
judged your scholarship as mediocre);

d. It does not affect the social climate at the workplace to make it
adversarial (at least not as much as a judgment-based model does);

E. It is unified and standard across different cases, people, various and
unrelated fields of science, and administrative units of universities and
ministries of Higher Education;

F. It is easy for administration to institutionally balance “supply” of and
“demand” for scientists by adjusting the cut-off criterion number of their
“contribution score”;

G. Did I forget something else?

I wonder if these benefits drive proliferation of the ISI practice and other
procedural models in academia across the world. Or is it something else that
I missed?

Questionable claim#6. A judgment-based model of summative assessment in
academia has several advantages over a procedural model:

A. Judgment-based summative assessment can be more meaningful and
contextual than a procedure-based one;

B. It is nuanced;

C. It can take into account more complex, contextual, and substantive
factors than just mechanical factors such as, for example: 1) a journal rate
of rejections and 2) citations following the candidates’ publications (as in
the ISI practice);

D. While judging the quality of the candidate’s scholarship, a
judgment-based summative assessment can contextually define what constitutes
this quality of scholarship for the given candidate in the given specific
field of the candidate’s expertise;

E. Arguably, under the right conditions, a judgment-based model of
summative assessment can easier prevent the candidates from the causalities
of paradigm wars (arguably the pool of possible professional peer reviewers
can be selected to avoid a possibility of paradigm wars, while this can be
hidden in the procedure-based model – it is probably easier to publish in
“respected journals” for scholars belonging to the mainstream vs. newly
emerging paradigms);

F. Did I miss something?

Questionable claim#7. A procedure-based models of summative assessment in
the academia (especially ones using the ISI web of knowledge practice) have
been spreading internationally and in the US.

Does somebody have any data supporting or undermining this claim? If so, why
does it happen now? Any ideas? Is it because, the ISI proliferation has
become possible with the development of Internet?

Questionable claim#8. Procedure-based models of summative assessment in
academia might have the major negative consequence by making the entire
science practice more conservative, less innovative, less inviting for a new
scientific paradigm questioning the status quo, and encouraging emerging
scholars to play safe. It can be even truer in social sciences and
humanities than in the natural sciences.

I do not know if there is any research supporting or undermining this claim.

Questionable claim#9. By investigating reasons and concerns that make the
ISI practice (and other procedure-based models of summative assessment) more
attractive for administrators and scholars organized into department units,
it is possible to offer to them alternative, judgment-based, models that
might be still attractive to them.

By the way, Peter, do you know why and historically how your department
accepted the ISI procedural model of the institutional summative
assessments? What was before it? Did you have any discussions of
alternatives? What caused the change and how people justify the current
practice? I think it can be very useful to know for us to understand this
practice. In my department, so far, all attempts to introduce
procedure-based models/policies of summative assessment have been defeated.

What do you think?

Eugene

> -----Original Message-----

> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]

> On Behalf Of Peter Smagorinsky

> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 9:28 AM

> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'

> Subject: RE: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish

>

> I really can't explain or defend the charts and how they're compiled; I

> simply provide one that I use when evaluating tenure/promotion cases.

> Sorry,Peter

>

> Peter Smagorinsky

> The University of Georgia

> 125 Aderhold Hall

> Athens, GA 30602

> smago@uga.edu/phone:706-542-4507

> http://www.coe.uga.edu/lle/faculty/smagorinsky/index.html

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]

> On

> Behalf Of David H Kirshner

> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 9:08 AM

> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity

> Subject: RE: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish

>

> Peter,

>

> Can you clarify a few points about the list:

>

> Why are some central journals, like Educational Researcher, not

> included and

> others, like Review of Research in Education, not listed with complete

> entries?

>

> I'm assuming from the low score for Harvard Ed Review that impact is

> calculated by frequency of citation, which means that another key

> measure of

> journal quality--acceptance rate--is ignored. Is that correct?

>

> Thanks.

> David

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]

> On

> Behalf Of Peter Smagorinsky

> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 4:56 AM

> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'

> Subject: RE: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish

>

> Attached is one "impact factor" list I found for journals in education.

> p

>

> Peter Smagorinsky

> The University of Georgia

> 125 Aderhold Hall

> Athens, GA 30602

> smago@uga.edu/phone:706-542-4507

> http://www.coe.uga.edu/lle/faculty/smagorinsky/index.html

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]

> On

> Behalf Of Cathrene Connery

> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:38 PM

> To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity

> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity

> Subject: Re: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish

>

> So, who has a list of the ISI journals? Anyone willing to share?

> Cathrene

>

>

>

> The BIG down side is total assimilation to the existing mainstream,

> David.

> >

> > I personally suggest a multi-valenced approach that includes ISI

> > highly rated journals and deviant ones, like MCA.

> >

> > Michael left out part of the GOOD news. MCA has a rating that should

> > win it ISI inclusion by year's end.

> >

> > I assume the PLAY article for discussion made it to everyone. People

> > reading this weekend?

> > mike

> >

> > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:50 PM, David Preiss <davidpreiss@uc.cl>

> wrote:

> >

> >> As a young scholar, I totally ENDORSE this petition, Michael.

> Indeed,

> >> I have always thought that MCA`s influence and intellectual appeal

> is

> >> not commensurate to its lack of inclusion in ISI. Alas, ISI! No

> >> chance but to play according to its rules, I guess.

> >> david

> >>

> >>

> >> On Jul 4, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote:

> >>

> >> Hi all,

> >>> Mike and I have had a conversation off line. He suggested I should

> >>> write to the list. It concerns the increasing pressure on all of us

> >>> to publish in "good" journals, and universities increasingly use as

> >>> a measure the presence and impact factor ranking in ISI Web of

> >>> Science as a measure. This is especially true for Asian countries

> >>> and other countries. With my graduate students, we always make

> >>> selections based on this criterion, because I want them to be

> >>> successful in their home countries and careers.

> >>>

> >>> In the sciences, this has long been common practice; now the social

> >>> sciences are swept up by the same trend. I have recently been

> >>> bombarded by publishers whose journals have increased in their

> >>> impact factor.

> >>> Furthermore, there are a number of companies that make the rankings

> >>> of their journal a key bit of information on the website.

> >>>

> >>> (Some of) You may be asking what this has to do with you. Well,

> >>> since I have been editing journals (besides MCA, I also do CULTURAL

> >>> STUDIES OF SCIENCE EDUCATION and FQS: FORUM QUALITATIVE SOCIAL

> >>> RESEARCH), I have been asked by new faculty members about rejection

> >>> rates, rankings, etc. And I have been asked by department heads and

> >>> deans as well.

> >>>

> >>> Some may decide to opt out, which would come with dire consequences

> >>> for many, who might find themselves in the position of not being

> >>> tenured or promoted.

> >>>

> >>> Unfortunately, we (MCA) currently are not in ISI Web of Science,

> >>> which places those of you who publish in the journal in an

> >>> unfortunate situation.

> >>>

> >>> One of the ways in which you, the community as a whole can be

> >>> proactive producing the conditions that would convince ISI to make

> >>> MCA one of the listed and ranked journals is to make it a habit to

> >>> cite RECENT articles you have been reading in MCA. Here is why:

> >>>

> >>> The impact factor for 2007 (which is what was made available just a

> >>> few days ago), for example, is calculated using the following

> formula:

> >>>

> >>> Number of citations in 2007 referencing

> >>> articles published in 2005 and 2006 impact factor =

> >>>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

> -----

> ---------------

> >>> Number of citable articles

> >>> published in 2005 and 2006

> >>>

> >>> (They may not take into account self-citation, but I am not sure)

> >>>

> >>> So the impact factor is 1 when a journal had 60 references from the

> >>> outside while having published 60 articles (over 2005 and 2006).

> >>>

> >>> You see, as a community, you can help yourself by citing MCA work

> in

> >>> other journals. With high rankings, MCA will be included in ISI and

> >>> then you and your peers will be rated higher at your institution

> >>> because it is part of ISI.

> >>>

> >>> Have a nice weekend all of you,

> >>> Sincerely,

> >>> Michael

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Wolff-Michael Roth, Editor-in-Chief

> >>> MIND, CULTURE, AND ACTIVITY

> >>> Email: mroth@uvic.ca

> >>> Journal: http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/1074-9039

> >>> Submissions: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/mca

> >>>

> >>> _______________________________________________

> >>> xmca mailing list

> >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu

> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca

> >>>

> >>

> >> David Preiss, Ph.D.

> >> Subdirector de Extensión y Comunicaciones Escuela de Psicología

> >> Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile Av Vicuña Mackenna - 4860

> >> 7820436 Macul

> >> Santiago, Chile

> >>

> >> Fono: 3544605

> >> Fax: 3544844

> >> e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl

> >> web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/ web institucional:

> >> http://www.epuc.cl/profesores/dpreiss

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> xmca mailing list

> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu

> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca

> >>

> > _______________________________________________

> > xmca mailing list

> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu

> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca

> >

>

>

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Received on Tue Jul 8 03:26 PDT 2008