In the short-term we are accruing or constructing knowledge at an ever
greater rate, so semiotic mediation is more important than ever, but over
time I don't yet see how this will affect us phylogenetically.
Carol
PS Unless babies start coming down the birth canal with built in (organic)
play stations. :-))
On 1/12/07, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org <ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org> wrote:
>
>
> SungWon, Mike and others:
>
> Phylogeny has not stopped, we are still evolving as a species; for better
> or worse we have not stopped evolving. Am I wrong in stating that
> semiotic
> mediation is the process structure of the cultural/historical
> <->ontogeny/phylogeny dialectic?
>
> eric
>
>
>
> "Mike Cole"
> <lchcmike who-is-at gmail. To: "eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> com> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: Re: correction RE:
> [xmca] Reference for ontological and
> xmca-bounces who-is-at web
> phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
> er.ucsd.edu
>
>
> 01/11/2007 07:57
> PM
> Please respond
> to mcole; Please
> respond to
> "eXtended Mind,
> Culture,
> Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Folks, you are confusing me.
> Phylogeny is the history of human life of which human phylogeny is one
> tiny
> branch.
> During phylogeny a new form of life slowly and unevening occurred in which
> achievements of
> prior generations began to modify the biology/behavior/psychology/social
> life of creatures that
> evenuate, along one branch in homo sapiens.
>
> To say that phylogenetic evolution is a cultural historical proces////////
> is either simply a confusion
> or it implicitly marks that last millisecond of evolution when homo
> sapiens
> and homo sapiens sapiens
> emerged.
>
> My two tsarist kopeks
> mike
>
> On 1/11/07, SungWon Hwang <swhwang@uvic.ca> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Eric,
> > I think it would better to see phylogenetic evolution as a
> > cultural-historical process mediated by object-oriented human
> activities.
> > Culturally historically new forms of activity emerge in and through
> > individual actions that concretely realize cultural possibilities and
> > achieve collective motives.
> > SungWon
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On Behalf Of ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:49 AM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological and
> > > phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael and Tony:
> > >
> > > Thank you for the useful information. What cultural influences would
> > > produce the phylogentic development?
> > >
> > > eric
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tony Whitson
> > > <twhitson who-is-at UDel.E To: "'eXtended
> Mind,
> > > Culture, Activity'" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > du> cc: Mike Cole
> > > <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent by: Subject: correction RE:
> > [xmca]
> > > Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > > xmca-bounces who-is-at web languagecomparison
> > > er.ucsd.edu
> > >
> > >
> > > 01/11/2007 09:39
> > > AM
> > > Please respond
> > > to "eXtended
> > > Mind, Culture,
> > > Activity"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I inserted "phylogenic" in the wrong place before. It's fixed below.
> > >
> > > On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Tony Whitson wrote:
> > >
> > > > What a nice, useful analogy Michael.
> > > >
> > > > I'm thinking about how to make it more precisely parallel. The
> > > (ontogenic)
> > > > development of language ability in the child could be compared with
> > the
> > > > (ontogenic) development of a player's football skills (I'm thinking
> > > > basketball might work better, since -- at least in US "gridiron"
> > football
> > > --
> > > > most players on the field have specialized roles not requiring as
> > great
> > a
> > > > range of versatile skills as in basketball [IMHO: a defensive left
> > guard
> > > > might think otherwise]). So, the development of a [basketball]
> > player's
> > > > skills would not recapitulate the (phylogenic) development of the
> game
> > > itself. Skills
> > > > that might have had value in the game as it was played in the early
> > > history
> > > > of the game might have no value for players today, and would not be
> > part
> > > of
> > > > a developmental stage that today's players go through on their way
> to
> > > > development of skills they use today.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:22 AM
> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Cc: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > > > languagecomparison
> > > >
> > > > A CHAT perspective built on the dialectic of individual and
> > > > collective, the person realizes cultural possibilities available to
> > > > any one else. From this perspective, children grow up in a different
> > > > material context, hearing different utterances in the context of
> > > > different situation. This would lead to the contention that ontogeny
> > > > does not recapitulate phylogeny, much in the same way that a present
> > > > day football game would not recapitulate the first football game
> ever
> > > > played or its precursor. (The referent of "football" can be taken
> the
> > > > British or American way).
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > On 11-Jan-07, at 6:46 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dan I. Slobin has an article, "From Ontogenesis to phylogenesis:
> what
> > > > can
> > > > child language tell us about language evolution?" that appears in
> IN
> > > > the
> > > > j. Langer, S.T. Parker edited volume, "BIology and Knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > The questions he poses in the article are: Does linguistic ontogeny
> > > > recapitulate phylogeny?, Does linguistic diachrony recapitulate
> > > > ontogony?
> > > > OD children create grammatical forms?
> > > >
> > > > good read but not a CHAT perspective but rather biologicaly based.
> > > >
> > > > eric
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Tony Whitson
> > > UD School of Education
> > > NEWARK DE 19716
> > >
> > > twhitson@udel.edu
> > > _______________________________
> > >
> > > "those who fail to reread
> > > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> > > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Feb 01 2007 - 10:11:32 PST