SungWon, Mike and others:
Phylogeny has not stopped, we are still evolving as a species; for better
or worse we have not stopped evolving. Am I wrong in stating that semiotic
mediation is the process structure of the cultural/historical
<->ontogeny/phylogeny dialectic?
eric
"Mike Cole"
<lchcmike who-is-at gmail. To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
com> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological and
xmca-bounces who-is-at web phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
er.ucsd.edu
01/11/2007 07:57
PM
Please respond
to mcole; Please
respond to
"eXtended Mind,
Culture,
Activity"
Folks, you are confusing me.
Phylogeny is the history of human life of which human phylogeny is one tiny
branch.
During phylogeny a new form of life slowly and unevening occurred in which
achievements of
prior generations began to modify the biology/behavior/psychology/social
life of creatures that
evenuate, along one branch in homo sapiens.
To say that phylogenetic evolution is a cultural historical proces////////
is either simply a confusion
or it implicitly marks that last millisecond of evolution when homo sapiens
and homo sapiens sapiens
emerged.
My two tsarist kopeks
mike
On 1/11/07, SungWon Hwang <swhwang@uvic.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi Eric,
> I think it would better to see phylogenetic evolution as a
> cultural-historical process mediated by object-oriented human activities.
> Culturally historically new forms of activity emerge in and through
> individual actions that concretely realize cultural possibilities and
> achieve collective motives.
> SungWon
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > On Behalf Of ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:49 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological and
> > phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
> >
> >
> > Michael and Tony:
> >
> > Thank you for the useful information. What cultural influences would
> > produce the phylogentic development?
> >
> > eric
> >
> >
> >
> > Tony Whitson
> > <twhitson who-is-at UDel.E To: "'eXtended
Mind,
> > Culture, Activity'" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > du> cc: Mike Cole
> > <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent by: Subject: correction RE:
> [xmca]
> > Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > xmca-bounces who-is-at web languagecomparison
> > er.ucsd.edu
> >
> >
> > 01/11/2007 09:39
> > AM
> > Please respond
> > to "eXtended
> > Mind, Culture,
> > Activity"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I inserted "phylogenic" in the wrong place before. It's fixed below.
> >
> > On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Tony Whitson wrote:
> >
> > > What a nice, useful analogy Michael.
> > >
> > > I'm thinking about how to make it more precisely parallel. The
> > (ontogenic)
> > > development of language ability in the child could be compared with
> the
> > > (ontogenic) development of a player's football skills (I'm thinking
> > > basketball might work better, since -- at least in US "gridiron"
> football
> > --
> > > most players on the field have specialized roles not requiring as
> great
> a
> > > range of versatile skills as in basketball [IMHO: a defensive left
> guard
> > > might think otherwise]). So, the development of a [basketball]
> player's
> > > skills would not recapitulate the (phylogenic) development of the
game
> > itself. Skills
> > > that might have had value in the game as it was played in the early
> > history
> > > of the game might have no value for players today, and would not be
> part
> > of
> > > a developmental stage that today's players go through on their way to
> > > development of skills they use today.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
[mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:22 AM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Cc: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > > languagecomparison
> > >
> > > A CHAT perspective built on the dialectic of individual and
> > > collective, the person realizes cultural possibilities available to
> > > any one else. From this perspective, children grow up in a different
> > > material context, hearing different utterances in the context of
> > > different situation. This would lead to the contention that ontogeny
> > > does not recapitulate phylogeny, much in the same way that a present
> > > day football game would not recapitulate the first football game ever
> > > played or its precursor. (The referent of "football" can be taken the
> > > British or American way).
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > On 11-Jan-07, at 6:46 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan I. Slobin has an article, "From Ontogenesis to phylogenesis: what
> > > can
> > > child language tell us about language evolution?" that appears in IN
> > > the
> > > j. Langer, S.T. Parker edited volume, "BIology and Knowledge.
> > >
> > > The questions he poses in the article are: Does linguistic ontogeny
> > > recapitulate phylogeny?, Does linguistic diachrony recapitulate
> > > ontogony?
> > > OD children create grammatical forms?
> > >
> > > good read but not a CHAT perspective but rather biologicaly based.
> > >
> > > eric
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Tony Whitson
> > UD School of Education
> > NEWARK DE 19716
> >
> > twhitson@udel.edu
> > _______________________________
> >
> > "those who fail to reread
> > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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