All the prior messages are there, Joe!! Dialogicality is not dependent upon
precise
temporal matching.
Is Vygotsky more than the sum of his appropriations? In a recent JREEP
about the idea
of leading activity, Veresov reminds us that many of the "original texts" is
a stenogram
that was ideologically selective from the get-go so that different RUSSIAN
editions of
"the same text" do not say the same thing.
That the US appropriated (and put together ) Mind in Society when we did and
how we did
in that way it did ought to keep historians of social sciences busy for
decades to come.
The right answers to this problem have been pouring in for some time!!
mike
On 1/3/07, JAG <joe.glick@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It drives me crazy that I never get my own messages except as part of
> someone's response to them. This is, in part, what I mean by
> dialogicality.
>
> I know that Mind in Society didn't create - it rather unleashed an
> orgy of ZPD (almost as learning theory) studies - something we have
> discussed conversationally as well while gazing at wonder at some past
> SRCD programs.
>
> My quibble is not with Vygotsky, but with the various forms of his
> appropriation.
>
> I think that you said it quite nicely (although I'm not sure it was
> you since your name was misspelled as Michael Coles) on the cover of
> the Wertsch (1985 book)
>
> "This lucid account of Vygotsky's ideas makes clear why he is exerting
> such a great influence on contemporary psychology and education.
> Especially valuable is Wertsch's explanation of the links that existed
> between the social and humane sciences and the work of Bakhtin, the
> Formalists, the Prague School and many others. Reading the book is a
> terrific educational experience."
>
> PS. I am that red dot on the map where the WTC used to be, and part of
> a larger cluster of red dots where The United States, as we had
> imagined it, used to be.
>
> On 1/3/07, Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think the issue of "lines of development" Anne Nelley, is very
> important.
> > It speaks directly to Yrjo's emphasis on the horizontal and vertical
> > "directions"
> > of development. After all, in his view learning and development make
> contact
> > at the nexus of the two and it can be all over the map! Absent from ANY
> of
> > this
> > discussion is evidence of cultural effects OF AND ON phylogeny, because
> the
> > motives of development are of phylotenetic, as well as ontogenetic and
> > cultural
> > historical origin.
> >
> > Joe. In that same book fr, 1978 there was also Vygotsky's article on
> play!
> > I think you are absolutely right about the educationalist bias, but
> Vygotsky
> > was, you
> > will excuse the expression, a tad educationalist biased himself, in
> > practice. Part of the
> > attractiveness of Yrjo's ideas and those of others like yourself who
> have
> > worked in the
> > workplace (where that workspace was not a faculty member's office!) is
> that
> > it makes
> > clear the lifespan potential of the theory. It is not by accident that
> so
> > many members of
> > xmca are interested in play, so that domain is now a part of the
> discourse
> > too.
> >
> > Gotta give ourselves time to develop, so to speak.
> > mike
> >
> > \
> > On 1/3/07, JAG <joe.glick@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Happy New Year to all:
> > >
> > > I've begun to think about the ZPD as having been too much defined in
> > > educational terms - as "movement" from here to there (intellectually).
> > > I think that the essential feature of the ZPD could/should be the
> > > "dialogicality" of it. From a dialogical perspective it is not one
> > > person moving another to a place where they were not, but rather an
> > > engagement between two people - both of whom must be affected by that
> > > engagement. I think that the original Doise and Mugny studies pointed
> > > in that direction.
> > >
> > > Perhaps I am speaking too much from a U,S. perspective but the way
> > > that Vygotsky was "reintroduced" in 1978 in "Mind in Society" shifted
> > > a great deal of focus on to ZPD as education. It was only later, in
> > > 1985 when Wertsch began to introduce the dialogical notion of the ZPD
> > > (seconded, interestingly in the introduction to "Vygotsky: The Social
> > > Formation of Mind" by Zinchenko and Davydov) who seemed to resisting
> > > the shift of the interpretation of Vygotsky in the direction of
> > > Activity Theory - with not enough Bakhtin - too much object related
> > > action and not enough consciousness. Of course, that was 1985 when
> > > consciousness could more comfortably take its place along with
> > > activity.
> > >
> > > >From a dialogical view of the ZPD the question of "who benefits"
> > > shifts to other questions such as "What are the conditions of
> > > participation, either focal or peripheral?" "What does it mean to have
> > > a dialogic encounter - especially when the institutional framework is
> > > (too often) seen as education of the unknowing by those who know - or
> > > think they do." In sum the issue might be framed as "how do you create
> > > a dialogical space in places where everything is working against it."
> > >
> > > Perhaps it requires both the wonderful wine and some of that wonderful
> > > cheese.
> > >
> > > Joe Glick
> > >
> > > On 1/3/07, Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont
> > > <Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote:
> > > > Dear All,
> > > > I am a member of the (numerous!) red dots along the Alpine lakes and
> > > > Rhein Walley (I suppose, but I am not sure because this map is not
> as
> > > > precise as the satellite maps. If it were you might discover that
> the
> > > > red color is due to the good red wine of our local vinyards in the
> area,
> > > > I suppose).
> > > > I enjoy the discussions but very seldom manage to pop in as they go
> very
> > > > fast and my administrative duties seem to slow me down terribly. I
> would
> > > > enjoy coming back on the effects of peer interactions and the
> learning
> > > > that can occur also with less advanced peers, as already described
> in
> > > > the late '70. It raises a lot of questions about the ZPD: why would
> the
> > > > development follow a predictable line? For psychological (Piaget
> would
> > > > say for logical) reasons? Or for cultural reasons? If the direction
> of
> > > > the line of development is largely given culturally then the
> credibility
> > > > of peers in different cultural contexts might be quite different .
> In
> > > > could be the social milieu at large, but also the micro context
> created
> > > > by gender when the interacting peers are same sex or note (as
> Charis
> > > > Psaltis's beautiful dissertation in Cambridge has shown).
> > > > Is development following a line...is another questions. What is/are
> the
> > > > relevant dimension(s) on which we project it to see line(s)? How
> does
> > > > the adult who reaches in the ZPD of the subject know that he is
> bringing
> > > > the subject "next step" (on the line)?
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to hear you Aleksandar tell us more on how to map human
> > > > cultural tools. Including those tools can make life livable in
> difficult
> > > > situations. And what do they have to do with devlopment.
> > > > Best greetings,
> > > > Anne-Nelly
> > > >
> > > > Prof. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont
> > > > Institut Psychologie et Education
> > > > Faculté des Lettres et Sciences humaines
> > > > Université de Neuchâtel
> > > > Espace L. Agassiz 1 CH 2000 Neuchâtel (Switzerland)
> > > > tel.:+41 32 718 18 56 fax: +41 32 718 18 51
> > > > email: anne-nelly.perret-clermont@unine.ch
> > > > http://www.unine.ch/psy
> > > > http://members.unine.ch/anne-nelly.perret-clermont/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Aleksandar Baucal wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Happy New Year (for us who belong to ? (sub)world it is 2007, what
> > > > > year is for other existing (sub)worlds?).
> > > > >
> > > > > After some drinks I have a crazy idea. If it was possible to map
> human
> > > > > genom with 3 bil. units, why it iwould not be possible to map
> human
> > > > > cultural tools ...ehh...could you imagine trill of such project :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I wish you happy and cheerful New Dialogical Year whatever
> > > > > number it is on your calendar :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Warmest greeting from small red dot from Belgrade
> > > > > Aleksandar Baucal
> > > > >
> > > > > Cathrene Connery wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Greetings colleagues,
> > > > >> Just a quick hello from Central Washington University in
> Ellensburg,
> > > > >> Washington. I'm not sure if I'm a dot on the map yet, but
> thought
> > > I'd
> > > > >> introduce myself. Thanks to Ana, I started receiving xmca e-mails
> > > about
> > > > >> a month ago. It has been refreshing to read everyone's
> dialouge. A
> > > > >> powerhouse of energy collectively represents the members of this
> > > > >> listserve!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Just a little about myself......I fell in love with Vygotsky in
> '89
> > > when
> > > > >> reading Thought and Language at Illinois while pursuing my first
> > > > >> Master's degree. This past May, I graduated from the University
> of
> > > New
> > > > >> Mexico with a doctorate in Language, Literacy, and Sociocultural
> > > Studies
> > > > >> focusing on Bilingual / TESL Education. It was an honor to have
> Vera
> > > > >> John-Steiner chair my committee. Emergent biliteracy,
> multi-modal
> > > > >> meaningmaking, and teacher education reform on behalf of
> culturally
> > > and
> > > > >> linguistically diverse children remain my great interests.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My best wishes to you and your families for the upcoming
> year. May
> > > you
> > > > >> experience peace, joy, and good health.
> > > > >> Todo lo mejor (All the best),
> > > > >> Cathrene
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
> > > > >> Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education Central
> Washington
> > > > >> University
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> xmca mailing list
> > > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Feb 01 2007 - 10:11:30 PST