Joe,
But it is not psychology (at least mainstream psychology) where
Vygotsky exerts influence today, but out of psychology (education,
ergonomics, communication and so on). If a young scholar wants a
position in the USA and wants to do research in Vygotskian psychology
there is almost no place to look at there within psychology
departments (at least he comes up with a neuroscientific base for the
ZPD). I guess it was never different, though. It is curious that in
the spanish speaking world is quite the contrary: mainstream american
psychology is marginal and vygotskian psychology is at the core of
many departments and journals, which creates for us a different set
of complexities.
David
On Jan 3, 2007, at 5:26 PM, JAG wrote:
> It drives me crazy that I never get my own messages except as part of
> someone's response to them. This is, in part, what I mean by
> dialogicality.
>
> I know that Mind in Society didn't create - it rather unleashed an
> orgy of ZPD (almost as learning theory) studies - something we have
> discussed conversationally as well while gazing at wonder at some past
> SRCD programs.
>
> My quibble is not with Vygotsky, but with the various forms of his
> appropriation.
>
> I think that you said it quite nicely (although I'm not sure it was
> you since your name was misspelled as Michael Coles) on the cover of
> the Wertsch (1985 book)
>
> "This lucid account of Vygotsky's ideas makes clear why he is exerting
> such a great influence on contemporary psychology and education.
> Especially valuable is Wertsch's explanation of the links that existed
> between the social and humane sciences and the work of Bakhtin, the
> Formalists, the Prague School and many others. Reading the book is a
> terrific educational experience."
>
> PS. I am that red dot on the map where the WTC used to be, and part of
> a larger cluster of red dots where The United States, as we had
> imagined it, used to be.
>
> On 1/3/07, Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think the issue of "lines of development" Anne Nelley, is very
>> important.
>> It speaks directly to Yrjo's emphasis on the horizontal and vertical
>> "directions"
>> of development. After all, in his view learning and development
>> make contact
>> at the nexus of the two and it can be all over the map! Absent
>> from ANY of
>> this
>> discussion is evidence of cultural effects OF AND ON phylogeny,
>> because the
>> motives of development are of phylotenetic, as well as
>> ontogenetic and
>> cultural
>> historical origin.
>>
>> Joe. In that same book fr, 1978 there was also Vygotsky's article
>> on play!
>> I think you are absolutely right about the educationalist bias,
>> but Vygotsky
>> was, you
>> will excuse the expression, a tad educationalist biased himself, in
>> practice. Part of the
>> attractiveness of Yrjo's ideas and those of others like yourself
>> who have
>> worked in the
>> workplace (where that workspace was not a faculty member's
>> office!) is that
>> it makes
>> clear the lifespan potential of the theory. It is not by accident
>> that so
>> many members of
>> xmca are interested in play, so that domain is now a part of the
>> discourse
>> too.
>>
>> Gotta give ourselves time to develop, so to speak.
>> mike
>>
>> \
>> On 1/3/07, JAG <joe.glick@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Happy New Year to all:
>> >
>> > I've begun to think about the ZPD as having been too much
>> defined in
>> > educational terms - as "movement" from here to there
>> (intellectually).
>> > I think that the essential feature of the ZPD could/should be the
>> > "dialogicality" of it. From a dialogical perspective it is not one
>> > person moving another to a place where they were not, but rather an
>> > engagement between two people - both of whom must be affected by
>> that
>> > engagement. I think that the original Doise and Mugny studies
>> pointed
>> > in that direction.
>> >
>> > Perhaps I am speaking too much from a U,S. perspective but the way
>> > that Vygotsky was "reintroduced" in 1978 in "Mind in Society"
>> shifted
>> > a great deal of focus on to ZPD as education. It was only later, in
>> > 1985 when Wertsch began to introduce the dialogical notion of
>> the ZPD
>> > (seconded, interestingly in the introduction to "Vygotsky: The
>> Social
>> > Formation of Mind" by Zinchenko and Davydov) who seemed to
>> resisting
>> > the shift of the interpretation of Vygotsky in the direction of
>> > Activity Theory - with not enough Bakhtin - too much object related
>> > action and not enough consciousness. Of course, that was 1985 when
>> > consciousness could more comfortably take its place along with
>> > activity.
>> >
>> > >From a dialogical view of the ZPD the question of "who benefits"
>> > shifts to other questions such as "What are the conditions of
>> > participation, either focal or peripheral?" "What does it mean
>> to have
>> > a dialogic encounter - especially when the institutional
>> framework is
>> > (too often) seen as education of the unknowing by those who know
>> - or
>> > think they do." In sum the issue might be framed as "how do you
>> create
>> > a dialogical space in places where everything is working against
>> it."
>> >
>> > Perhaps it requires both the wonderful wine and some of that
>> wonderful
>> > cheese.
>> >
>> > Joe Glick
>> >
>> > On 1/3/07, Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont
>> > <Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote:
>> > > Dear All,
>> > > I am a member of the (numerous!) red dots along the Alpine
>> lakes and
>> > > Rhein Walley (I suppose, but I am not sure because this map is
>> not as
>> > > precise as the satellite maps. If it were you might discover
>> that the
>> > > red color is due to the good red wine of our local vinyards in
>> the area,
>> > > I suppose).
>> > > I enjoy the discussions but very seldom manage to pop in as
>> they go very
>> > > fast and my administrative duties seem to slow me down
>> terribly. I would
>> > > enjoy coming back on the effects of peer interactions and the
>> learning
>> > > that can occur also with less advanced peers, as already
>> described in
>> > > the late '70. It raises a lot of questions about the ZPD: why
>> would the
>> > > development follow a predictable line? For psychological
>> (Piaget would
>> > > say for logical) reasons? Or for cultural reasons? If the
>> direction of
>> > > the line of development is largely given culturally then the
>> credibility
>> > > of peers in different cultural contexts might be quite
>> different . In
>> > > could be the social milieu at large, but also the micro
>> context created
>> > > by gender when the interacting peers are same sex or note (as
>> Charis
>> > > Psaltis's beautiful dissertation in Cambridge has shown).
>> > > Is development following a line...is another questions. What
>> is/are the
>> > > relevant dimension(s) on which we project it to see line(s)?
>> How does
>> > > the adult who reaches in the ZPD of the subject know that he
>> is bringing
>> > > the subject "next step" (on the line)?
>> > >
>> > > I'd like to hear you Aleksandar tell us more on how to map human
>> > > cultural tools. Including those tools can make life livable in
>> difficult
>> > > situations. And what do they have to do with devlopment.
>> > > Best greetings,
>> > > Anne-Nelly
>> > >
>> > > Prof. Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont
>> > > Institut Psychologie et Education
>> > > Faculté des Lettres et Sciences humaines
>> > > Université de Neuchâtel
>> > > Espace L. Agassiz 1 CH 2000 Neuchâtel (Switzerland)
>> > > tel.:+41 32 718 18 56 fax: +41 32 718 18 51
>> > > email: anne-nelly.perret-clermont@unine.ch
>> > > http://www.unine.ch/psy
>> > > http://members.unine.ch/anne-nelly.perret-clermont/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Aleksandar Baucal wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Dear all,
>> > > >
>> > > > Happy New Year (for us who belong to ? (sub)world it is
>> 2007, what
>> > > > year is for other existing (sub)worlds?).
>> > > >
>> > > > After some drinks I have a crazy idea. If it was possible to
>> map human
>> > > > genom with 3 bil. units, why it iwould not be possible to
>> map human
>> > > > cultural tools ...ehh...could you imagine trill of such
>> project :)
>> > > >
>> > > > Anyway, I wish you happy and cheerful New Dialogical Year
>> whatever
>> > > > number it is on your calendar :)
>> > > >
>> > > > Warmest greeting from small red dot from Belgrade
>> > > > Aleksandar Baucal
>> > > >
>> > > > Cathrene Connery wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Greetings colleagues,
>> > > >> Just a quick hello from Central Washington University in
>> Ellensburg,
>> > > >> Washington. I'm not sure if I'm a dot on the map yet, but
>> thought
>> > I'd
>> > > >> introduce myself. Thanks to Ana, I started receiving xmca e-
>> mails
>> > about
>> > > >> a month ago. It has been refreshing to read everyone's
>> dialouge. A
>> > > >> powerhouse of energy collectively represents the members of
>> this
>> > > >> listserve!
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Just a little about myself......I fell in love with
>> Vygotsky in '89
>> > when
>> > > >> reading Thought and Language at Illinois while pursuing my
>> first
>> > > >> Master's degree. This past May, I graduated from the
>> University of
>> > New
>> > > >> Mexico with a doctorate in Language, Literacy, and
>> Sociocultural
>> > Studies
>> > > >> focusing on Bilingual / TESL Education. It was an honor to
>> have Vera
>> > > >> John-Steiner chair my committee. Emergent biliteracy,
>> multi-modal
>> > > >> meaningmaking, and teacher education reform on behalf of
>> culturally
>> > and
>> > > >> linguistically diverse children remain my great interests.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> My best wishes to you and your families for the upcoming
>> year. May
>> > you
>> > > >> experience peace, joy, and good health.
>> > > >> Todo lo mejor (All the best),
>> > > >> Cathrene
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
>> > > >> Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education Central
>> Washington
>> > > >> University
>> > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > >> xmca mailing list
>> > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > xmca mailing list
>> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > xmca mailing list
>> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > xmca mailing list
>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
David Preiss, Ph.D.
Profesor Auxiliar / Assistant Professor
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
Escuela de Psicología
Av Vicuña Mackenna 4860
Macul, Santiago
Chile
Fono: 3544605
Fax: 3544844
e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/
web institucional: http://www.uc.cl/psicologia
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