Sorry if I was misunderstood...yes, there are things we need to measure and
can measure. I don't think development is one of them.
Lois
> From: ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:21:08 -0600
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] chat analysis of ritual
>
>
> Lois,
> Surely we need to measure something. We cannot live in the ether can we?
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> Lois Holzman
> <lholzman who-is-at eastsideins To: "eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> titute.org> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca] chat
> analysis of ritual
> xmca-bounces who-is-at weber.uc
> sd.edu
>
>
> 03/18/2006 12:34 PM
> Please respond to
> "eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's interesting to me that this quote is framed within the discourse of
> measurement, with all the assumptions that that implies. I don't read the
> capitalized quoted phrase as implying measurement, for surely there can be
> and are limits without measurement. Further, I become more and move
> convinced that development (i.e., developmental activity) cannot be
> measured.
>
> Lois
>
>
>> From: ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:54:23 -0600
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] chat analysis of ritual
>>
>>
>> Perhaps for clarity on the subject let's look at p. 187 of Thought and
>> Language (1999 Kozulin ed.).
>>
>> "To imitate, it is necessary to possess the means of stepping from
>> something one knows to something nes. With assistance, every child can
> do
>> more that he can by himself - though ONLY WITHIN THE LIMITS SET BY THE
>> STATE OF HIS DEVELOPMENT. If imitative ability had no limits, any child
>> would be able to solve any problem with an adult's assistance. But this
> is
>> not the case. The child is most successful in solving problems that are
>> closer to those solved independently; then the difficulties grow until,
> at
>> a certain level of complexity, the child fails, whatever assistance is
>> provided."
>>
>> LSV does not mention the independent problem solving ability but rather
> the
>> joint mediated activity that Mike writes about. However, the capitalized
>> phrase emphasizes the paramaters where this joint mediated activity
> should
>> and only can be measured. A very difficult proposition to practice
> whereas
>> there is no accepted way of measuring development in the CHAT tradition.
>>
>> hmmmmmmmmmmm?
>> eric
>>
>>
>>
>> bb
>> <xmca-whoever who-is-at co To:
> mcole@weber.ucsd.edu,
>> "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> mcast.net> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Sent by: cc:
>> xmca-bounces who-is-at web Subject: Re: [xmca] chat
> analysis
>> of ritual
>> er.ucsd.edu
>>
>>
>> 03/16/2006 02:43
>> PM
>> Please respond
>> to "eXtended
>> Mind, Culture,
>> Activity"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, not to be criticizing of LSV, but rather pointing to where clarity
> can
>> be
>> improved, especially now in education where the word zoped is buzzing.
>>
>> bb
>>
>> On Thursday 16 March 2006 10:11 am, Mike Cole wrote:
>>> Yes, independence is a very unfortunate word since I take it to mean a
>>> particular form of interdependence.
>>> Seems like critical analysis of all such oppositions that are actually
>>> relationally constituted is very often a helpful
>>> step in our analysis.
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On 3/16/06, bb <xmca-whoever@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday 26 February 2006 10:55 am, Mike Cole wrote:
>>>>
>>>> " How can one juxtapose the words unmediated and participation?"
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm....
>>>>
>>>> How can one juxtapose the words "independent problem solving" in a
>>>> cultural
>>>> theory of mediated development?
>>>>
>>>> "the distance between the actual developmental level as determined by
>>>> independent problem solving and the level of potential development as
>>>> determined through problem solving under adult guidance or in
>>>> collaboration
>>>> with more capable peers."
>>>>
>>>> bb
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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