If one were to think of development in the Ericson sense than you are
correct Lois that development is immeasurable. But when talking about
development in the educational sense i am refering to the more specific
domain of a person acquiring a transferable mental attribute;
communication, navigation of time and space, cultural manners, arithmetic,
writing, etc. Obviously within each of these general domains there would
exist smaller subdomains. When I discuss measurement it would be along the
continuum of not competant in communcation or extremely competant in
communcation. The ability to transfer a skill from one domain to another
depends upon the skill learn. Eating is a skill that most people are able
to transfer successfully, whereas communication is more context dependent.
Do you understand better where are am going with trying to measure
development now, Lois?
eric
Lois Holzman
<lholzman who-is-at eastsideins To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
titute.org> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca] chat analysis of ritual
xmca-bounces who-is-at weber.uc
sd.edu
03/22/2006 09:39 AM
Please respond to
"eXtended Mind,
Culture, Activity"
Sorry if I was misunderstood...yes, there are things we need to measure and
can measure. I don't think development is one of them.
Lois
> From: ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:21:08 -0600
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] chat analysis of ritual
>
>
> Lois,
> Surely we need to measure something. We cannot live in the ether can we?
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> Lois Holzman
> <lholzman who-is-at eastsideins To: "eXtended
Mind,
> Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> titute.org> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca]
chat
> analysis of ritual
> xmca-bounces who-is-at weber.uc
> sd.edu
>
>
> 03/18/2006 12:34 PM
> Please respond to
> "eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's interesting to me that this quote is framed within the discourse of
> measurement, with all the assumptions that that implies. I don't read the
> capitalized quoted phrase as implying measurement, for surely there can
be
> and are limits without measurement. Further, I become more and move
> convinced that development (i.e., developmental activity) cannot be
> measured.
>
> Lois
>
>
>> From: ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:54:23 -0600
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] chat analysis of ritual
>>
>>
>> Perhaps for clarity on the subject let's look at p. 187 of Thought and
>> Language (1999 Kozulin ed.).
>>
>> "To imitate, it is necessary to possess the means of stepping from
>> something one knows to something nes. With assistance, every child can
> do
>> more that he can by himself - though ONLY WITHIN THE LIMITS SET BY THE
>> STATE OF HIS DEVELOPMENT. If imitative ability had no limits, any child
>> would be able to solve any problem with an adult's assistance. But this
> is
>> not the case. The child is most successful in solving problems that are
>> closer to those solved independently; then the difficulties grow until,
> at
>> a certain level of complexity, the child fails, whatever assistance is
>> provided."
>>
>> LSV does not mention the independent problem solving ability but rather
> the
>> joint mediated activity that Mike writes about. However, the
capitalized
>> phrase emphasizes the paramaters where this joint mediated activity
> should
>> and only can be measured. A very difficult proposition to practice
> whereas
>> there is no accepted way of measuring development in the CHAT tradition.
>>
>> hmmmmmmmmmmm?
>> eric
>>
>>
>>
>> bb
>> <xmca-whoever who-is-at co To:
> mcole@weber.ucsd.edu,
>> "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> mcast.net> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Sent by: cc:
>> xmca-bounces who-is-at web Subject: Re: [xmca] chat
> analysis
>> of ritual
>> er.ucsd.edu
>>
>>
>> 03/16/2006 02:43
>> PM
>> Please respond
>> to "eXtended
>> Mind, Culture,
>> Activity"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, not to be criticizing of LSV, but rather pointing to where clarity
> can
>> be
>> improved, especially now in education where the word zoped is buzzing.
>>
>> bb
>>
>> On Thursday 16 March 2006 10:11 am, Mike Cole wrote:
>>> Yes, independence is a very unfortunate word since I take it to mean a
>>> particular form of interdependence.
>>> Seems like critical analysis of all such oppositions that are actually
>>> relationally constituted is very often a helpful
>>> step in our analysis.
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On 3/16/06, bb <xmca-whoever@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday 26 February 2006 10:55 am, Mike Cole wrote:
>>>>
>>>> " How can one juxtapose the words unmediated and participation?"
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm....
>>>>
>>>> How can one juxtapose the words "independent problem solving" in a
>>>> cultural
>>>> theory of mediated development?
>>>>
>>>> "the distance between the actual developmental level as determined by
>>>> independent problem solving and the level of potential development as
>>>> determined through problem solving under adult guidance or in
>>>> collaboration
>>>> with more capable peers."
>>>>
>>>> bb
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sat Apr 01 2006 - 01:00:13 PST