>Diane:
>I think that if you look at the log of messages and into the history of the
>xlchc and xmca lists, it will be hard to justify marginalization as the
>motive for the establishment of the xgrad list; at least marginalization
>exerted by the professor-types. Instead, I think you will find that the
>establishment of such a list was at the request of grad student-types,
>possibly because of their own notions that somehow they needed a 'safe'
>environment in which to discuss 'their' issues. I admit that this is still
>a form of marginalization, but it is a self-marginalization; not unlike
>what I imagine "self-colonization" to mean in critical pedagogy circles.
I absolutely agree with you Dewey. I apologize if my postings on
this are "seeming" to be critical, because that is not at all
what I am intending.
Grad students DO tend to "self-marginalize"
and in the process, from my experience, cut themselves off from
provocative/rigorous engagements with
theoretical ideas and the possible/practical applications
of those in "realworld" settings...
As Francoise indicated, when email participation is organized by
required readings and class-based interactions, grad-lists flourish. This
is my experience too. But, outside of those curriculum paradigms, it seems
that the enthusiasm for interrogating the complexities dwindles...
> I
>see such self-marginalization as an attempt to 'gain a voice' albeit in a
>'safe' setting and not a silencing and unnecessary though it may be in the
>case of xlchc/xmca.
perhaps it is an attempt to "silence" the academic voice that grad students
seem to find so alien to their "own" voices. This, again from my experience
with grad-only lists, and grad-based interactions, bespeaks a kind of
resentment
of theory - all too common, I find, *especially* in education.
I am not sure why education-located grads seek higher degrees, and yet
resent the engagements with theory, although it
may have something to do with the
socialization of women-as-non/intellectuals; and in grad-education
programs, certainly at UBC, there are mostly women pursuing their
MA, PhD... But I'm generalizing, inappropriately so.
<snip>
>I would also point out that having been a participant on a number of lists
>over the years, this(ese) list(s) xlchc/xclass/xmca are not exactly typical
>in that it is typical for the members of this list to actually 'listen' to
>each other and respond respectfully and tolerantly to each other's ideas
>and not their status.
Again, I agree wholeheartedly. Again, this is why I enjoy this
list more than others I have participated in. There is, here,
a genuine interest in engaging with ideas. I like that quite a lot.
>On the other hand, on even the most contentious of
>the academic lists to which I belong, I have not really seen a put-down of
>a student. I have seen them disagreed with and politely informed that
>their submission to a list is off-subject for the list. These are no more
>or less than would be done to another professor-type. (A recent occurrance
>of this and subsequent discussion occurred on the AREA-C list just a few
>weeks ago.)
I have not witnessed this, myself. But I don't suppose
it surprises me... Again, my experience with grads reveals
a kind of resentment of theory, a repressed hostility towards
theoretical engagements:
but this could be, as I suggested, something which takes place only in
Education faculties.
Again, please don't misunderstand me on this - I think xmca is
exemplary in its inclusive discussions and willingness to engage
with more difficult ideas. Really. I *like* it here.
I think it may be my writing-voice, I tend to be flip, silly, haw haw,
just 'cause that's what comes outta me when I start typing... Ask anyone
who's emailed with me for any period of time. I can't help it. I don't mean
anything
by it. It's just my silly-side, musn't take myself too seriously, after all.
But I can be serious. Dry. Clinical. I can be technical. Brief.
Outrageous. Inane. Intelligent. Goofy. Astute. Incisive. Offensive.
Complimentary. Ingratiating. Kind. Fair. Spontaneous. Impulsive.
diane
"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good;
oh lord, please don't let me be misunderstood..." (name that tune? circa 1960s?)