[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Sat Jan 18 16:35:04 PST 2020
Foucault is the modern version of quietism.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://brill.com/view/title/54574>
Home Page <https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm>
On 19/01/2020 10:32 am, robsub@ariadne.org.uk wrote:
> Is this not Foucault's concept of governmentality? In
> other words *you* control yourself the way *they* want you to.
>
> Can "self-control" be regarded as a tool? Then, like all
> tools, the purpose for which it is used depends on the user.
>
> Rob
>
> On 18/01/2020 20:48, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>>
>> Martin, (just catched your post quickly), I think your
>> example makes it quite clear that self control and
>> emancipation are not the same, right? Rhat is sort of
>> what I was getting into when a few posts ago I pointed
>> out that a lot of the meta-cognition and critical
>> thinking etc… has made it to mainstream education for a
>> good while now, including the so-called 21^st century
>> skills, and yet, I would not consider much of what is
>> done in formal education (and much of what is raised in
>> educational research) as having that “higher” moral
>> character implied in the notion of emancipation (not to
>> free oneself from conditions, which I think is what Haydi
>> is getting at), and apparently much of what has been
>> taught hasn’t been very useful for surviving the 21^st
>> century…
>>
>> Haydi, thanks for your careful response and patience.
>> Michael, what you just wrote (about being vs becoming),
>> which is very much to the point, reminded me of Ortega y
>> Gasset’s: “The only thing that is given to us and that is
>> when there is human life is the having to make it … Life
>> is a task”
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of
>> Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net>
>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Date: *Saturday, 18 January 2020 at 21:37
>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>> Tell me if I am inadvertently highjacking the thread
>> here, but something that has puzzled me for some time is
>> this. If someone becomes able to control their own
>> behavior, is this necessarily emancipatory? A child can
>> engage in self-control in order to do something
>> completely new, something that transforms their own
>> ecology and opens up new possibilities for themselves and
>> other people. True. But equally, a child can engage in
>> self-control in order to do precisely what their
>> caregiver (or their government) wants and tells them to
>> do. Are these both emancipatory? Are these both examples
>> of ‘executive function’? Are they both occasions of the
>> higher psychological functions (deliberate and conscious)?
>>
>> Puzzled...
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 17, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Peter Feigenbaum
>> <pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
>> <mailto:pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> Michael and Andy,
>>
>> If you'll permit me to jump into this conversation, I
>> can help answer Michael's questions. As a long-time
>> researcher of private (egocentric) speech, I see
>> Vygotsky's theoretical assertions about the movement
>> inward of signs (or, more precisely, the externally
>> existing social system of speech communication)
>> during child development as standing in sharp
>> contrast to the nativist assertions that verbal
>> thinking is an inborn biological system. But more
>> pertinent to your discussion, by placing the source
>> of human verbal thinking in the social sphere rather
>> than the biological sphere, Vygotsky also embraces
>> the primary function of signs as a social means for
>> controlling the consciousness of others. What happens
>> during the development of private speech is that this
>> artificially created means of social control of
>> others passes to the child as part of the process of
>> acquiring the system of speech communication. As a
>> derivative of the primary function of signs, inner
>> speech becomes a child's means of controlling his or
>> her own consciousness. Possessing control over one's
>> own consciousness is nothing less than emancipatory.
>> Neat trick, eh?
>>
>> Sorry to intervene! Carry on.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 11:57 AM Glassman, Michael
>> <glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> This is interesting Andy. What strikes me as I
>> read it is the sentence “Its theoretical goal is
>> the prediction and control of behavior.” These
>> days I see Vygotsky as advocating for thinking as
>> a tool that can predict and control the ecology.
>> Of course Watson is saying (like most
>> behaviorists) you can’t go inside the head. Is
>> Vygotsky saying that internalized tools are the
>> same as external tools? Is that why he emphasizes
>> the initial external to internal migrations of
>> tools we use to control the ecology around us?
>> Was he trying to split this differences, you can
>> go inside the head if you accept that was is
>> inside the head is a consequence of what is
>> outside the head? For me it puts the whole idea
>> of contextualism in a different light.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On
>> Behalf Of *Andy Blunden
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2020 6:06 PM
>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>> Here is what J B Watson had to say about
>> Behaviourism:
>>
>> “Psychology as the behaviorist views it is a
>> purely objective experimental branch of
>> natural science. Its theoretical goal is the
>> prediction and control of behavior.
>> Introspection forms no essential part of its
>> methods, nor is the scientific value of its
>> data dependent upon the readiness with which
>> they lend themselves to interpretation in
>> terms of consciousness. The behaviorist, in
>> his efforts to get a unitary scheme of animal
>> response, recognizes no dividing line between
>> man and brute” (‘Psychology as the
>> Behaviorist Views it’, 1913)
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!KGKeukY!kAhm2-MhmeEb01UGseDSvAZrvZnJtObSQddV0XOYmjieDbMEOEMJQ1-jaTJz_kABKaH3hjUn$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!KGKeukY!kAhm2-MhmeEb01UGseDSvAZrvZnJtObSQddV0XOYmjieDbMEOEMJQ1-jaTJz_kABKUW5Le1w$>
>>
>>
>> On 17/01/2020 3:13 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>>
>> What you write makes sense to me, Michael. I
>> meant behaviorism as a science of control
>> from a pedagogy perspective. I use to raise
>> the question “what type of pedagogy do arrive
>> at when you take the S-R scheme (and
>> conditioning) as your main explanatory
>> scheme?” If you raise the same question from
>> a sociocultural perspective, the answer is
>> quite different, and allows for issues of
>> freedom in a whole new light.
>>
>> In terms of Vygotsky’s positions, I think you
>> render a valid reading.
>>
>> Although I think that today’s school
>> curricula in most countries are quite
>> explicit on the importance of the “adaptable
>> thinking skills” that you refer to, rather
>> than on educating for jobs (although I can
>> see that is still the underlying assumption).
>> You can read about those skills in the
>> so-called XXIst century skills, very extended
>> in recent educational reforms (including
>> critical thinking skills, creativity,
>> collaborative skills, digital skills…). I am
>> afraid, though, that the ecosocial crises
>> that we are facing are very quickly and
>> patently showing how narrow our
>> understandings of the sort of skills needed
>> to survive in the XXIst century are. I think
>> that what the climate crisis is showing us is
>> that we need to connect those notions of
>> thinking with the practical socio-economical
>> organization of power and of the relations of
>> humans with nature. I don’t remember now
>> where I read that a scientist had been
>> including spikes of civil activism,
>> disobedience, and social disrest in his/her
>> climate prediction computer models, and was
>> showing that these were the only variables
>> that may have a largest, quickest effect in
>> achieving the gas emission reductions needed
>> (if you can reduce the solution to reducing
>> gas emissions…). I think events today are
>> re-writing the way “progressing towards a
>> modern world” made concious thinking more
>> relevant… But this is a digression, sorry!
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on
>> behalf of "Glassman, Michael"
>> <glassman.13@osu.edu>
>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture,
>> Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Date: *Thursday, 16 January 2020 at 15:49
>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>> Hi Alfredo and Andy,
>>
>> I am not sure I agree with this
>> characterization of behaviorism. Especially
>> at the time he was writing behaviorism was
>> for the most part I think focusing on the
>> behaviors of individuals rather than going
>> inside the head to understand what
>> individuals did. It cast quite a wide net,
>> from Thorndike to Mead. But I don’t think at
>> this point that Vygotsky had a dog in a
>> cognitive/behaviorist fight (maybe I am
>> wrong). I sort of see Vygotsky at this point
>> as not so much discussing control of
>> individuals by those outside them (at least
>> not directly) but the ways individuals are
>> able to control the ecologies around them. He
>> sees this occurring in two possible ways,
>> being able to use internalized tools in order
>> to directly control the ecology, and being
>> able to control their own thinking so that
>> they can actually play (not the right word)
>> with these internalized symbols before
>> applying them. He has not difficulty with the
>> former, and all that is really necessary is
>> to be taught different applications for
>> limited situations. But as we progressed to a
>> modern world the ability to lead a
>> satisfactory life from a small set of
>> applications you might say becomes more and
>> more difficult. Humans developed more
>> abstract thinking, controlling their thoughts
>> to deal with a quickly changing and
>> heterogenous ecology, but this demanded
>> conscious effort on the part of social
>> interlocutors (formal teaching). The
>> difficulty he raises in the socialist
>> alteration of man is that this type of
>> conscious effort was limited to only a small
>> population that then used their more
>> adaptable thinking skills (I am hesitant to
>> say advanced) to manipulate (to differentiate
>> from control) those who were on the lower
>> rungs of society. I mean we continue to do
>> this today when we argue to educate students
>> for specific jobs but do not offer broader
>> education in thinking (there is nothing wrong
>> in training in skills such as mechanics and
>> plumbing, but unless we teach people to
>> manipulate their thinking about those skills
>> they will never really have control of what
>> they do in a complex society. I don’t think
>> that is what Vygotsky was writing about in
>> Crisis, but it does set up a road map for
>> where he wants to go, which I actually think
>> you can see in part even in his dissertation
>> on Hamlet.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On
>> Behalf Of *Alfredo Jornet Gil
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2020 7:34 AM
>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>> Andy, all,
>>
>> Behaviorism as the science of controlling
>> people, as the opposite of an emancipatory
>> science, is exactly how I teach it in my
>> learning theory courses. I too find the most
>> useful reading of Vygotsky’s attempts as
>> aiming at an emancipatory science, although
>> clearly the instrumental bend in some of the
>> formulations gets in the way, including the
>> terminology of “control” that also
>> characterized, for example, Dewey’s ideas on
>> inquiry. “The artificial control of behavior”
>> could for example be as well formulated as
>> the object-oriented activity of a social
>> movement, which precisely aims to gain
>> “control” over conditions for development;
>> only that “control” might be a quite
>> misleading way of posing it…
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on
>> behalf of Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org
>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture,
>> Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>> *Date: *Thursday, 16 January 2020 at 12:52
>> *To: *"xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>"
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>> Michael, I simply take Vygotsky at his
>> (translated) word. He wants "a scientific
>> theory which would lead to the subordination
>> and mastery of the mind, to the artificial
>> control of behaviour" and whether he likes
>> Munsterberg or personality testing for jobs
>> is, to me, irrelevant.
>>
>> Now there /is /an ambiguity in Vygotsky's
>> claim. Behaviourism, for example, I would
>> define as the science of controlling people,
>> and as such is the opposite of an
>> emancipatory science. What Vygotsky is mainly
>> interested in, on the other hand, is giving
>> to people the capacity to control /their own/
>> mind. But this is not clear from the above,
>> and maybe Vygotsky himself wasn't clear. His
>> writing on "socialist man" and the business
>> with lie detectors suggest that there were
>> some blind spots there.
>>
>> Anyway, I was only interested in using the
>> quote for my own purposes in contrasting the
>> academic literature on "social Movement
>> Studies" and that genre of social movement
>> literature written by and for activist, which
>> is usually narrative or autobiographical in
>> style, and in the above sense "technic"
>> rather than "epistemology."
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!KGKeukY!mrT6LtMASo6iMbjfKmsIkMmzZQzGLVGZkfw0x1WC8SwszUCXq-0wxCJX5hQJe8BHX5U$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!KGKeukY!mrT6LtMASo6iMbjfKmsIkMmzZQzGLVGZkfw0x1WC8SwszUCXq-0wxCJX5hQJhs-ll44$>
>>
>>
>> On 16/01/2020 6:42 am, Glassman, Michael wrote:
>>
>> I don’t know, the sense I get is that he
>> was really criticizing Musterberg, not
>> embracing him, at least from what I read
>> in Crisis. Vygotsky seems to believe we
>> should be wary of this idea of a
>> practical psychology that can use
>> empirical means to look predict human
>> behavior. One hint I get from the piece
>> is his mention of using practical
>> psychology to determine whether people
>> should be tram drivers. To me it sounds
>> like he was arguing also against the
>> rising use of intelligence tests as a
>> psychological tool. James brought over
>> Musterberg in part I think to explore the
>> idea of empirical psychology and
>> Musterberg it seems wound up merging
>> empirical and practical in ways that
>> Vygotsky thought might be detrimental,
>> rightfully suggesting it would send
>> psychology towards the types of practical
>> models of the physical sciences where it
>> did not belong, something that I think
>> has plagued the field since. At least
>> from my reading of this piece is that
>> Vygotsky also found it confusing that
>> Musterberg by following James was also
>> grabbing hold of an idealist vision of
>> psychology, that people behave in certain
>> ways because they were human. Vygotsky
>> seemed to think that there was no way to
>> reconcile this. At this moment I see this
>> as sort of a precursor of where Vygotsky
>> wanted to go, finding a way to merge the
>> idealist vision with a material approach
>> but not falling into a trap in either
>> direction. He did not want to be Wundt
>> and he did not want to be Musterberg, he
>> definitely wanted nothing to do with the
>> intelligence testers who combined
>> “empirical” and practical psychology for
>> ideological reasons (just recently heard
>> about Thomas Teo’s idea of epistemic
>> violence. I think that might fit in here).
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *On Behalf Of *Jussi Silvonen
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:15 PM
>> *To:* mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>; eXtended Mind,
>> Culture, Activity
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> take a look at Internet Archive
>> (archive.org <http://archive.org/>), you
>> can find PDF files of most of
>> Münsterberg's books there. It is obvious,
>> that Müsterberg had a great influence on
>> LSV, at least in his theory's
>> instrumental phase.
>>
>> JusSi
>>
>> ----------------
>> Jussi Silvonen
>> Dosentti
>> Itä-Suomen yliopisto, Joensuun kampus
>> Kasvatustieteiden ja psykologian osasto
>> PL 111 (Metria)
>> 80101 Joensuu
>> ------------------
>> https://wiki.uef.fi/display/~jsilvone@uef.fi/Home
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/wiki.uef.fi/display/*jsilvone@uef.fi/Home__;fg!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIe9sFnfP$>
>> https://uef.academia.edu/JussiSilvonen
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/uef.academia.edu/JussiSilvonen__;!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIREamwTv$>
>> http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/jussi-silvonen/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.mendeley.com/profiles/jussi-silvonen/__;!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIRbRK5sy$>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *Lähettäjä:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>> käyttäjän mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>> puolesta
>> *Lähetetty:* keskiviikko 15. tammikuuta
>> 2020 19.56
>> *Vastaanottaja:* eXtended Mind, Culture,
>> Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>> *Aihe:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>> In my view, Munsterberg was no fool and
>> was deeply immersed in the problem of the
>> "two psychologies" that LSV sought to
>> supercede. For a quick take on
>> "psychotechnics" in work, check his book
>> out on google and search the term. For
>> example,
>>
>> Psychotechnics is really a technical
>> science related to a causal
>> [experimental-mc] psychology as
>> engineering is related to physics.
>> Psychotechnics necessarily refers to the
>> future while the psychohistorical
>> sciences refer to the past. (Munsterg,
>> 1915, p.354)
>>
>> It would be interesting to stage a
>> discussion bertween Munsterberg and LSV.
>> Which one would have more to say for his
>> accomplishments view from, say, 2020?
>>
>> And if someone has a pdf of the book,
>> please sing out!
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 8:25 AM Glassman,
>> Michael <glassman.13@osu.edu
>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> I don’t know, I read it that he was
>> criticizing Munsterberg with his
>> discussion of psychotechnics, which I
>> guess was the title of Munsterberg’s
>> last book. To meet it reads like
>> Vygotsky was thinking Munsterberg was
>> falling into a dangerous materialist
>> trap. Maybe that’s what you are
>> saying Andy.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>> *On Behalf Of *Andy Blunden
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020
>> 2:39 AM
>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful
>> psychology?
>>
>> This is what I was looking for:
>>
>> https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri12.htm#p1207
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.marxists.org*2Farchive*2Fvygotsky*2Fworks*2Fcrisis*2Fpsycri12.htm*p1207__*3BIw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkzm3Ep0s*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412462637&sdata=OBOvR6IPfkMeN4eKIcrZXz5aDBjX1t5LB6LokEBXrDg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIXDWyWWT$>
>>
>> It was the exclusion of
>> "psychotechnics" from the fundamental
>> problems of psychology which he
>> objected to. On the contrary, the
>> philosophy of practice provided all
>> the solutions to these problems. "The
>> goal of such a psychology is not
>> Shakespeare in concepts, as it was
>> for Dilthey, but */in one word –
>> psychotechnics/*, i.e., a scientific
>> theory which would lead to the
>> subordination and mastery of the
>> mind, to the artificial control of
>> behaviour."
>>
>> Thanks all.
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk8iLcReg*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412472638&sdata=hBx7qflf4m9p8uTE*2B4alLHqD4n1aMpxrwmV7dWRuyqc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIZm3eJhg$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk7OSM06Y*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412472638&sdata=ZI48nZtfz6lMy2*2BE6nm84IFOiB2DeCOirmEhCw3o0qg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIVQug3id$>
>>
>>
>> On 15/01/2020 3:09 pm, David Kellogg
>> wrote:
>>
>> But psychotechnics was really the
>> Soviet version of human resource
>> management. The idea was to
>> select particular "types" for
>> particular jobs. It wasn't really
>> a Soviet idea--it started in
>> Germany (and in fact, the Nazis
>> were very big on it; the
>> selection ramp at Auschwitz was
>> based on it). In China, there was
>> also quite a bit of emphasis on
>> making sure that people suited
>> the professions chosen for them,
>> as education was a very scarce
>> resource.
>>
>> Isaac Spielrein--Sabine's
>> brother, who was a colleague of
>> Vygotsky--was a psychotechnician;
>> his essay on the language of the
>> Red Army soldier is written with
>> that perspective in mind. And it
>> was at a psychotechnic conference
>> that Vygotsky was asked if there
>> could be a pedology of adults, to
>> aid in psychotechnic selection.
>>
>> Vygotsky said no.
>>
>>
>> David Kellogg
>>
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>> New Article: 'Commentary: On the
>> originality of Vygotsky's
>> "Thought and Word" i
>>
>> in /Mind Culture and Activity/
>>
>> /https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Fdoi*2Ffull*2F10.1080*2F10749039.2020.1711775__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBktaxJh-A*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412482626&sdata=yllUDzZhK8*2BCHvi8HXvoxP457gXRNAa8VYC*2FPC4PQtc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIWQuZxxv$>/
>>
>> Some free e-prints available at:
>>
>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Feprint*2FSK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY*2Ffull*3Ftarget*3D10.1080*10749039.2020.1711775__*3BLw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkmu8ynwE*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412482626&sdata=6*2B8dfqrBCex1zj*2Fmqw0i5RKwp0LGBvcc1zZjt*2BjGEjk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIUbsFhIY$>
>>
>> New Translation with Nikolai
>> Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's
>> Pedological Works Volume One:
>> Foundations of Pedology"
>>
>> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.springer.com*2Fgp*2Fbook*2F9789811505270__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkiawojtY*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412492624&sdata=PDdGgIgXqxWaVkzWvkE*2B24nBKC6nX6Vv*2Bq1mROYzdMk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QISHX4tYT$>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 1:02 PM
>> mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> Might you be looking for
>> “psychotechnics” Andy?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 7:35
>> PM David Kellogg
>> <dkellogg60@gmail.com
>> <mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Andy--
>>
>> That really doesn't sound
>> like Vygotsky to me.
>>
>> Yes, he refers to art as
>> the "social technique of
>> emotion" (Psychology of
>> Art). Yes, he did
>> experiments on reading
>> "Gentle Breath" to see if
>> Bunin's short story had
>> any affect on breathing
>> rates. But as far as I
>> know he had nothing to do
>> with Luria's work on lie
>> detectors (in The Nature
>> of Human Conflict), and
>> he was even rather
>> skeptical of Luria's work
>> on optical illusions in
>> "uneducated" peoples
>>
>> . Remember, this is the
>> guy who denied that a
>> general psychology could
>> ever cut itself off from
>> practice and vice versa
>> (History of the Crisis in
>> Psychology), who rejected
>> the idea that thinking is
>> speech with the sound
>> turned off (Thinking and
>> Speech). Besides, who
>> ever heard of a
>> technology opposed to an
>> epistemology? What would
>> that mean? A hand without
>> a brain?
>>
>> Vygotsky sounds more like
>> this: "Neither the hand
>> nor the brain left to
>> itself can do much."
>> Francis Bacon, /Novum
>> Organum/ (1620), Book 1,
>> Aphorism 2.
>>
>>
>> David Kellogg
>>
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>> New Article: 'Commentary:
>> On the originality of
>> Vygotsky's "Thought and
>> Word" i
>>
>> in /Mind Culture and
>> Activity/
>>
>> /https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Fdoi*2Ffull*2F10.1080*2F10749039.2020.1711775__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBktaxJh-A*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412492624&sdata=BP3oUS62Il2ysAn5qg8wmdRgzXL88z*2FStKI*2Bh6VwUKw*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIW8z2T_v$>/
>>
>> Some free e-prints
>> available at:
>>
>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Feprint*2FSK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY*2Ffull*3Ftarget*3D10.1080*10749039.2020.1711775__*3BLw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkmu8ynwE*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412502616&sdata=sDCVNon8FCfDczqUlefwc6O6XRxMu7kgYtTX5KhfPSk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIUEJFvpx$>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at
>> 11:49 AM Andy Blunden
>> <andyb@marxists.org
>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> There's somewhere
>> where Vygotsky talks
>> about psychology as a
>> technology as opposed
>> to (for example) an
>> epistemology. Can
>> anyone point me to
>> where this
>> observation is to be
>> found. I can find it
>> with my search
>> engines. I think
>> Vygotsky and Luria's
>> invention of the
>> lie-detector has been
>> mentioned in this
>> connection.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> --
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social
>> Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk8iLcReg*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412502616&sdata=q5ZRtmU7n76mwg2owaHdn8LcNDmLEHxREaF04n263AQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QITY6oecw$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk7OSM06Y*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412512609&sdata=r3AyHyk8zmlFhrR7IW5kr51MZsY8ohkyUWlVW9jyKpM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIaQ-1kB-$>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> fiction is but a form of
>> symbolic action, a mere game
>> of “as if”, therein lies its
>> true function and its
>> potential for effecting
>> change - R. Ellison
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> For archival resources
>> relevant to the research of
>> myself and other members of
>> LCHC, visit
>>
>> lchc.ucsd.edu
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Flchc.ucsd.edu__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkAj8DVL0*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412512609&sdata=gpiCZeiosXnQSx4T2Qe3TjykJII53mXoOxw290oXsMA*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIX0clSVO$>.
>> For a narrative history of
>> the research of LCHC, visit
>> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Flchcautobio.ucsd.edu__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkRAeC65Q*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412522609&sdata=t2P5tYIsk3GCrG8v5UtA9qX28ejZW*2BnuLzQfRupbPL8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIfoqvbhu$>.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> fiction is but a form of symbolic
>> action, a mere game of “as if”, therein
>> lies its true function and its potential
>> for effecting change - R. Ellison
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> For archival resources relevant to the
>> research of myself and other members of
>> LCHC, visit
>>
>> lchc.ucsd.edu
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flchc.ucsd.edu&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412522609&sdata=7SppP1Yvcb2dKzCKoZVcsxSc317*2FVcl6Kpfghe0O2Hg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIbLpkCwJ$>.
>> For a narrative history of the research
>> of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flchcautobio.ucsd.edu&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412532604&sdata=F8KGSR10*2BDM*2BkgdBt*2FCc9Nobo9vvGTCOGRRz6g9P*2FeY*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIReAJOUT$>.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
>>
>> Director,
>>
>> Office of Institutional Research
>> <https://www.fordham.edu/info/24303/institutional_research>
>>
>> Fordham University
>>
>> Thebaud Hall-202
>>
>> Bronx, NY 10458
>>
>> Phone: (718) 817-2243
>>
>> Fax: (718) 817-3817
>>
>> email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
>> <mailto:pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>
>>
>
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