[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
robsub@ariadne.org.uk
robsub@ariadne.org.uk
Sat Jan 18 15:32:51 PST 2020
Is this not Foucault's concept of governmentality? In other words *you*
control yourself the way *they* want you to.
Can "self-control" be regarded as a tool? Then, like all tools, the
purpose for which it is used depends on the user.
Rob
On 18/01/2020 20:48, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>
> Martin, (just catched your post quickly), I think your example makes
> it quite clear that self control and emancipation are not the same,
> right? Rhat is sort of what I was getting into when a few posts ago I
> pointed out that a lot of the meta-cognition and critical thinking
> etc… has made it to mainstream education for a good while now,
> including the so-called 21^st century skills, and yet, I would not
> consider much of what is done in formal education (and much of what is
> raised in educational research) as having that “higher” moral
> character implied in the notion of emancipation (not to free oneself
> from conditions, which I think is what Haydi is getting at), and
> apparently much of what has been taught hasn’t been very useful for
> surviving the 21^st century…
>
> Haydi, thanks for your careful response and patience. Michael, what
> you just wrote (about being vs becoming), which is very much to the
> point, reminded me of Ortega y Gasset’s: “The only thing that is given
> to us and that is when there is human life is the having to make it …
> Life is a task”
>
> Alfredo
>
> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Martin Packer
> <mpacker@cantab.net>
> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Date: *Saturday, 18 January 2020 at 21:37
> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>
> Tell me if I am inadvertently highjacking the thread here, but
> something that has puzzled me for some time is this. If someone
> becomes able to control their own behavior, is this necessarily
> emancipatory? A child can engage in self-control in order to do
> something completely new, something that transforms their own ecology
> and opens up new possibilities for themselves and other people. True.
> But equally, a child can engage in self-control in order to do
> precisely what their caregiver (or their government) wants and tells
> them to do. Are these both emancipatory? Are these both examples of
> ‘executive function’? Are they both occasions of the higher
> psychological functions (deliberate and conscious)?
>
> Puzzled...
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Peter Feigenbaum
> <pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu <mailto:pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>> wrote:
>
> Michael and Andy,
>
> If you'll permit me to jump into this conversation, I can help
> answer Michael's questions. As a long-time researcher of private
> (egocentric) speech, I see Vygotsky's theoretical assertions about
> the movement inward of signs (or, more precisely, the externally
> existing social system of speech communication) during child
> development as standing in sharp contrast to the nativist
> assertions that verbal thinking is an inborn biological system.
> But more pertinent to your discussion, by placing the source of
> human verbal thinking in the social sphere rather than the
> biological sphere, Vygotsky also embraces the primary function of
> signs as a social means for controlling the consciousness of
> others. What happens during the development of private speech is
> that this artificially created means of social control of others
> passes to the child as part of the process of acquiring the system
> of speech communication. As a derivative of the primary function
> of signs, inner speech becomes a child's means of controlling his
> or her own consciousness. Possessing control over one's own
> consciousness is nothing less than emancipatory. Neat trick, eh?
>
> Sorry to intervene! Carry on.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
>
> On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 11:57 AM Glassman, Michael
> <glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>> wrote:
>
> This is interesting Andy. What strikes me as I read it is the
> sentence “Its theoretical goal is the prediction and control
> of behavior.” These days I see Vygotsky as advocating for
> thinking as a tool that can predict and control the ecology.
> Of course Watson is saying (like most behaviorists) you can’t
> go inside the head. Is Vygotsky saying that internalized tools
> are the same as external tools? Is that why he emphasizes the
> initial external to internal migrations of tools we use to
> control the ecology around us? Was he trying to split this
> differences, you can go inside the head if you accept that was
> is inside the head is a consequence of what is outside the
> head? For me it puts the whole idea of contextualism in a
> different light.
>
> Michael
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On Behalf Of *Andy
> Blunden
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2020 6:06 PM
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>
> Here is what J B Watson had to say about Behaviourism:
>
> “Psychology as the behaviorist views it is a purely
> objective experimental branch of natural science. Its
> theoretical goal is the prediction and control of
> behavior. Introspection forms no essential part of its
> methods, nor is the scientific value of its data dependent
> upon the readiness with which they lend themselves to
> interpretation in terms of consciousness. The behaviorist,
> in his efforts to get a unitary scheme of animal response,
> recognizes no dividing line between man and brute”
> (‘Psychology as the Behaviorist Views it’, 1913)
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!KGKeukY!kAhm2-MhmeEb01UGseDSvAZrvZnJtObSQddV0XOYmjieDbMEOEMJQ1-jaTJz_kABKaH3hjUn$>
> Home Page
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>
>
> On 17/01/2020 3:13 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>
> What you write makes sense to me, Michael. I meant
> behaviorism as a science of control from a pedagogy
> perspective. I use to raise the question “what type of
> pedagogy do arrive at when you take the S-R scheme (and
> conditioning) as your main explanatory scheme?” If you
> raise the same question from a sociocultural perspective,
> the answer is quite different, and allows for issues of
> freedom in a whole new light.
>
> In terms of Vygotsky’s positions, I think you render a
> valid reading.
>
> Although I think that today’s school curricula in most
> countries are quite explicit on the importance of the
> “adaptable thinking skills” that you refer to, rather than
> on educating for jobs (although I can see that is still
> the underlying assumption). You can read about those
> skills in the so-called XXIst century skills, very
> extended in recent educational reforms (including critical
> thinking skills, creativity, collaborative skills, digital
> skills…). I am afraid, though, that the ecosocial crises
> that we are facing are very quickly and patently showing
> how narrow our understandings of the sort of skills needed
> to survive in the XXIst century are. I think that what the
> climate crisis is showing us is that we need to connect
> those notions of thinking with the practical
> socio-economical organization of power and of the
> relations of humans with nature. I don’t remember now
> where I read that a scientist had been including spikes of
> civil activism, disobedience, and social disrest in
> his/her climate prediction computer models, and was
> showing that these were the only variables that may have a
> largest, quickest effect in achieving the gas emission
> reductions needed (if you can reduce the solution to
> reducing gas emissions…). I think events today are
> re-writing the way “progressing towards a modern world”
> made concious thinking more relevant… But this is a
> digression, sorry!
>
> Alfredo
>
> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of
> "Glassman, Michael" <glassman.13@osu.edu>
> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Date: *Thursday, 16 January 2020 at 15:49
> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>
> Hi Alfredo and Andy,
>
> I am not sure I agree with this characterization of
> behaviorism. Especially at the time he was writing
> behaviorism was for the most part I think focusing on the
> behaviors of individuals rather than going inside the head
> to understand what individuals did. It cast quite a wide
> net, from Thorndike to Mead. But I don’t think at this
> point that Vygotsky had a dog in a cognitive/behaviorist
> fight (maybe I am wrong). I sort of see Vygotsky at this
> point as not so much discussing control of individuals by
> those outside them (at least not directly) but the ways
> individuals are able to control the ecologies around them.
> He sees this occurring in two possible ways, being able to
> use internalized tools in order to directly control the
> ecology, and being able to control their own thinking so
> that they can actually play (not the right word) with
> these internalized symbols before applying them. He has
> not difficulty with the former, and all that is really
> necessary is to be taught different applications for
> limited situations. But as we progressed to a modern world
> the ability to lead a satisfactory life from a small set
> of applications you might say becomes more and more
> difficult. Humans developed more abstract thinking,
> controlling their thoughts to deal with a quickly changing
> and heterogenous ecology, but this demanded conscious
> effort on the part of social interlocutors (formal
> teaching). The difficulty he raises in the socialist
> alteration of man is that this type of conscious effort
> was limited to only a small population that then used
> their more adaptable thinking skills (I am hesitant to say
> advanced) to manipulate (to differentiate from control)
> those who were on the lower rungs of society. I mean we
> continue to do this today when we argue to educate
> students for specific jobs but do not offer broader
> education in thinking (there is nothing wrong in training
> in skills such as mechanics and plumbing, but unless we
> teach people to manipulate their thinking about those
> skills they will never really have control of what they do
> in a complex society. I don’t think that is what Vygotsky
> was writing about in Crisis, but it does set up a road map
> for where he wants to go, which I actually think you can
> see in part even in his dissertation on Hamlet.
>
> Michael
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On Behalf Of
> *Alfredo Jornet Gil
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2020 7:34 AM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>
> Andy, all,
>
> Behaviorism as the science of controlling people, as the
> opposite of an emancipatory science, is exactly how I
> teach it in my learning theory courses. I too find the
> most useful reading of Vygotsky’s attempts as aiming at an
> emancipatory science, although clearly the instrumental
> bend in some of the formulations gets in the way,
> including the terminology of “control” that also
> characterized, for example, Dewey’s ideas on inquiry. “The
> artificial control of behavior” could for example be as
> well formulated as the object-oriented activity of a
> social movement, which precisely aims to gain “control”
> over conditions for development; only that “control” might
> be a quite misleading way of posing it…
>
> Alfredo
>
> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of
> Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Date: *Thursday, 16 January 2020 at 12:52
> *To: *"xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>
> Michael, I simply take Vygotsky at his (translated) word.
> He wants "a scientific theory which would lead to the
> subordination and mastery of the mind, to the artificial
> control of behaviour" and whether he likes Munsterberg or
> personality testing for jobs is, to me, irrelevant.
>
> Now there /is /an ambiguity in Vygotsky's claim.
> Behaviourism, for example, I would define as the science
> of controlling people, and as such is the opposite of an
> emancipatory science. What Vygotsky is mainly interested
> in, on the other hand, is giving to people the capacity to
> control /their own/ mind. But this is not clear from the
> above, and maybe Vygotsky himself wasn't clear. His
> writing on "socialist man" and the business with lie
> detectors suggest that there were some blind spots there.
>
> Anyway, I was only interested in using the quote for my
> own purposes in contrasting the academic literature on
> "social Movement Studies" and that genre of social
> movement literature written by and for activist, which is
> usually narrative or autobiographical in style, and in the
> above sense "technic" rather than "epistemology."
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!KGKeukY!mrT6LtMASo6iMbjfKmsIkMmzZQzGLVGZkfw0x1WC8SwszUCXq-0wxCJX5hQJe8BHX5U$>
> Home Page
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>
>
> On 16/01/2020 6:42 am, Glassman, Michael wrote:
>
> I don’t know, the sense I get is that he was really
> criticizing Musterberg, not embracing him, at least
> from what I read in Crisis. Vygotsky seems to believe
> we should be wary of this idea of a practical
> psychology that can use empirical means to look
> predict human behavior. One hint I get from the piece
> is his mention of using practical psychology to
> determine whether people should be tram drivers. To me
> it sounds like he was arguing also against the rising
> use of intelligence tests as a psychological tool.
> James brought over Musterberg in part I think to
> explore the idea of empirical psychology and
> Musterberg it seems wound up merging empirical and
> practical in ways that Vygotsky thought might be
> detrimental, rightfully suggesting it would send
> psychology towards the types of practical models of
> the physical sciences where it did not belong,
> something that I think has plagued the field since. At
> least from my reading of this piece is that Vygotsky
> also found it confusing that Musterberg by following
> James was also grabbing hold of an idealist vision of
> psychology, that people behave in certain ways because
> they were human. Vygotsky seemed to think that there
> was no way to reconcile this. At this moment I see
> this as sort of a precursor of where Vygotsky wanted
> to go, finding a way to merge the idealist vision with
> a material approach but not falling into a trap in
> either direction. He did not want to be Wundt and he
> did not want to be Musterberg, he definitely wanted
> nothing to do with the intelligence testers who
> combined “empirical” and practical psychology for
> ideological reasons (just recently heard about Thomas
> Teo’s idea of epistemic violence. I think that might
> fit in here).
>
> Michael
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On Behalf Of
> *Jussi Silvonen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:15 PM
> *To:* mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>; eXtended Mind, Culture,
> Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>
> Mike,
>
> take a look at Internet Archive (archive.org
> <http://archive.org/>), you can find PDF files of most
> of Münsterberg's books there. It is obvious, that
> Müsterberg had a great influence on LSV, at least in
> his theory's instrumental phase.
>
> JusSi
>
> ----------------
> Jussi Silvonen
> Dosentti
> Itä-Suomen yliopisto, Joensuun kampus
> Kasvatustieteiden ja psykologian osasto
> PL 111 (Metria)
> 80101 Joensuu
> ------------------
> https://wiki.uef.fi/display/~jsilvone@uef.fi/Home
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> https://uef.academia.edu/JussiSilvonen
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/uef.academia.edu/JussiSilvonen__;!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIREamwTv$>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Lähettäjä:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> käyttäjän
> mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>>
> puolesta
> *Lähetetty:* keskiviikko 15. tammikuuta 2020 19.56
> *Vastaanottaja:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> *Aihe:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>
> In my view, Munsterberg was no fool and was deeply
> immersed in the problem of the "two psychologies" that
> LSV sought to supercede. For a quick take on
> "psychotechnics" in work, check his book out on google
> and search the term. For example,
>
> Psychotechnics is really a technical science related
> to a causal [experimental-mc] psychology as
> engineering is related to physics. Psychotechnics
> necessarily refers to the future while the
> psychohistorical sciences refer to the past.
> (Munsterg, 1915, p.354)
>
> It would be interesting to stage a discussion
> bertween Munsterberg and LSV. Which one would have
> more to say for his accomplishments view from, say, 2020?
>
> And if someone has a pdf of the book, please sing out!
>
> mike
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 8:25 AM Glassman, Michael
> <glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>> wrote:
>
> I don’t know, I read it that he was criticizing
> Munsterberg with his discussion of psychotechnics,
> which I guess was the title of Munsterberg’s last
> book. To meet it reads like Vygotsky was thinking
> Munsterberg was falling into a dangerous
> materialist trap. Maybe that’s what you are saying
> Andy.
>
> Michael
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On
> Behalf Of *Andy Blunden
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 2:39 AM
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>
> This is what I was looking for:
>
> https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri12.htm#p1207
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.marxists.org*2Farchive*2Fvygotsky*2Fworks*2Fcrisis*2Fpsycri12.htm*p1207__*3BIw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkzm3Ep0s*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412462637&sdata=OBOvR6IPfkMeN4eKIcrZXz5aDBjX1t5LB6LokEBXrDg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIXDWyWWT$>
>
> It was the exclusion of "psychotechnics" from the
> fundamental problems of psychology which he
> objected to. On the contrary, the philosophy of
> practice provided all the solutions to these
> problems. "The goal of such a psychology is not
> Shakespeare in concepts, as it was for Dilthey,
> but */in one word – psychotechnics/*, i.e., a
> scientific theory which would lead to the
> subordination and mastery of the mind, to the
> artificial control of behaviour."
>
> Thanks all.
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk8iLcReg*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412472638&sdata=hBx7qflf4m9p8uTE*2B4alLHqD4n1aMpxrwmV7dWRuyqc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIZm3eJhg$>
> Home Page
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>
>
> On 15/01/2020 3:09 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>
> But psychotechnics was really the Soviet
> version of human resource management. The idea
> was to select particular "types" for
> particular jobs. It wasn't really a Soviet
> idea--it started in Germany (and in fact, the
> Nazis were very big on it; the selection ramp
> at Auschwitz was based on it). In China, there
> was also quite a bit of emphasis on making
> sure that people suited the professions chosen
> for them, as education was a very scarce resource.
>
> Isaac Spielrein--Sabine's brother, who was a
> colleague of Vygotsky--was a psychotechnician;
> his essay on the language of the Red Army
> soldier is written with that perspective in
> mind. And it was at a psychotechnic conference
> that Vygotsky was asked if there could be a
> pedology of adults, to aid in psychotechnic
> selection.
>
> Vygotsky said no.
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: 'Commentary: On the originality
> of Vygotsky's "Thought and Word" i
>
> in /Mind Culture and Activity/
>
> /https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Fdoi*2Ffull*2F10.1080*2F10749039.2020.1711775__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBktaxJh-A*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412482626&sdata=yllUDzZhK8*2BCHvi8HXvoxP457gXRNAa8VYC*2FPC4PQtc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIWQuZxxv$>/
>
> Some free e-prints available at:
>
> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Feprint*2FSK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY*2Ffull*3Ftarget*3D10.1080*10749039.2020.1711775__*3BLw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkmu8ynwE*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412482626&sdata=6*2B8dfqrBCex1zj*2Fmqw0i5RKwp0LGBvcc1zZjt*2BjGEjk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIUbsFhIY$>
>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S.
> Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One:
> Foundations of Pedology"
>
> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.springer.com*2Fgp*2Fbook*2F9789811505270__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkiawojtY*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412492624&sdata=PDdGgIgXqxWaVkzWvkE*2B24nBKC6nX6Vv*2Bq1mROYzdMk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QISHX4tYT$>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 1:02 PM mike cole
> <mcole@ucsd.edu <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>
> Might you be looking for “psychotechnics”
> Andy?
>
> Mike
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 7:35 PM David
> Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com
> <mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Andy--
>
> That really doesn't sound like
> Vygotsky to me.
>
> Yes, he refers to art as the "social
> technique of emotion" (Psychology of
> Art). Yes, he did experiments on
> reading "Gentle Breath" to see if
> Bunin's short story had any affect on
> breathing rates. But as far as I know
> he had nothing to do with Luria's work
> on lie detectors (in The Nature of
> Human Conflict), and he was even
> rather skeptical of Luria's work on
> optical illusions in "uneducated" peoples
>
> . Remember, this is the guy who denied
> that a general psychology could ever
> cut itself off from practice and vice
> versa (History of the Crisis in
> Psychology), who rejected the idea
> that thinking is speech with the sound
> turned off (Thinking and Speech).
> Besides, who ever heard of a
> technology opposed to an epistemology?
> What would that mean? A hand without a
> brain?
>
> Vygotsky sounds more like this:
> "Neither the hand nor the brain left
> to itself can do much." Francis Bacon,
> /Novum Organum/ (1620), Book 1,
> Aphorism 2.
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: 'Commentary: On the
> originality of Vygotsky's "Thought and
> Word" i
>
> in /Mind Culture and Activity/
>
> /https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Fdoi*2Ffull*2F10.1080*2F10749039.2020.1711775__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBktaxJh-A*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412492624&sdata=BP3oUS62Il2ysAn5qg8wmdRgzXL88z*2FStKI*2Bh6VwUKw*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIW8z2T_v$>/
>
> Some free e-prints available at:
>
> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Feprint*2FSK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY*2Ffull*3Ftarget*3D10.1080*10749039.2020.1711775__*3BLw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkmu8ynwE*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412502616&sdata=sDCVNon8FCfDczqUlefwc6O6XRxMu7kgYtTX5KhfPSk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIUEJFvpx$>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:49 AM Andy
> Blunden <andyb@marxists.org
> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>
> There's somewhere where Vygotsky
> talks about psychology as a
> technology as opposed to (for
> example) an epistemology. Can
> anyone point me to where this
> observation is to be found. I can
> find it with my search engines. I
> think Vygotsky and Luria's
> invention of the lie-detector has
> been mentioned in this connection.
>
> Andy
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk8iLcReg*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412502616&sdata=q5ZRtmU7n76mwg2owaHdn8LcNDmLEHxREaF04n263AQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QITY6oecw$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk7OSM06Y*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412512609&sdata=r3AyHyk8zmlFhrR7IW5kr51MZsY8ohkyUWlVW9jyKpM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIaQ-1kB-$>
>
>
> --
>
> fiction is but a form of symbolic action,
> a mere game of “as if”, therein lies its
> true function and its potential for
> effecting change - R. Ellison
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> For archival resources relevant to the
> research of myself and other members of
> LCHC, visit
>
> lchc.ucsd.edu
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Flchc.ucsd.edu__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkAj8DVL0*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412512609&sdata=gpiCZeiosXnQSx4T2Qe3TjykJII53mXoOxw290oXsMA*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIX0clSVO$>.
> For a narrative history of the research of
> LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Flchcautobio.ucsd.edu__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkRAeC65Q*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412522609&sdata=t2P5tYIsk3GCrG8v5UtA9qX28ejZW*2BnuLzQfRupbPL8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIfoqvbhu$>.
>
>
> --
>
> fiction is but a form of symbolic action, a mere game
> of “as if”, therein lies its true function and its
> potential for effecting change - R. Ellison
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> For archival resources relevant to the research of
> myself and other members of LCHC, visit
>
> lchc.ucsd.edu
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flchc.ucsd.edu&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412522609&sdata=7SppP1Yvcb2dKzCKoZVcsxSc317*2FVcl6Kpfghe0O2Hg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIbLpkCwJ$>.
> For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit
> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flchcautobio.ucsd.edu&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412532604&sdata=F8KGSR10*2BDM*2BkgdBt*2FCc9Nobo9vvGTCOGRRz6g9P*2FeY*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIReAJOUT$>.
>
>
> --
>
> Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
>
> Director,
>
> Office of Institutional Research
> <https://www.fordham.edu/info/24303/institutional_research>
>
> Fordham University
>
> Thebaud Hall-202
>
> Bronx, NY 10458
>
> Phone: (718) 817-2243
>
> Fax: (718) 817-3817
>
> email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu <mailto:pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>
>
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