[Xmca-l] Corrections to Henry's notes on Huw's video

Tue Aug 25 21:27:31 PDT 2020

Corrections to the notes: 
David K. is David Kellogg, of course.
In #3, “teachability” is my term, not Huw’s.
Also in #3, it’s “relative achievement”. Vygotsky’s term. 
In #14, the two kinds of understanding are of the adult, not the child.
Henry

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Huw, David, and Andy videos
> Date: August 25, 2020 at 6:58:29 PM MDT
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> 
> 
> Huw,
> It has taken me until now to find the time to view carefully your video. I think it was time well spent your answering Anthony’s question about your views on the application of Vygotsky to parenting. And I consider my time well spent taking notes to better understand your contribution. I hope anyone reading my notes will consider it time well spent. Please correct any misunderstandings on my part. Thanks to you and Anthony and to David K. for the reading from Vygotsky.
> 
> First of all, I appreciate very much the pace of your delivery. I had the sense you were thinking in depth as you spoke, at a pace that very often I could follow and take notes without a lot of rewinding. In the order your present your ideas, here is what I especially appreciated: 
> 1) Your construal of your thinking as Vygotsky inspired, rather than a strict adherence to Vygotsky’s writing
> 2) That you do not think that these ideas apply only to children’s development…I got the feeling, in fact, that you developed as an adult as you interacted with your children:)
> 3) You profiled the zone of proximal development as about “teachability”, that is the openness of the child to the scaffolding of the adult, rather than the level of intelligence. (Interestingly, I was just a reading from Vygotsky (see below) posted to the chat by David K., wherein Vygotsky calls this “realtive achievement. See paragraphs 21-24 especially.) 
> 4) The role of the adult as observer/participant without obstructing what you call the “orientation” of the child, a term I have seen you use often in posts to the chat. 
> 5) Encouraging the agency of the child, while helping them with a task. An example being picking up the child to turn on a light. 
> 7) Your sense that crises are often optional, if you know how to provide options, rather than demands, and still get the child to bed.
> 8) At about 1:05:30, I lost the thread of something you were saying about how you might address differences between your two children in your scaffolding. 
> 9) Interesting how you were the out-of-school parent, vis a vis the school-curriculum role of your wife. Furthermore, your sense, based on your own experience in comprehensive schooling in the UK, that schooling didn’t do you harm.
> 10) You described the process of your younger child learning to ride a bike with training wheels for two years, at which time he felt comfortable in riding without the training wheels. You let him decide when to make the change.
> 11) Your out-of-school scaffolding focused on projects and games, everyday activities, problems as food for thought to encourage independent thinking.
> 12) Covid-19 provided the conditions for alternative schooling from March to July. You did mornings, your wife did afternoons.
> 13) An interesting comment you make about “notational understanding” vs. “engaged understanding”, where the second kind of understanding facilitates the orientation of the child. (See #4 above.) 
> 14) An interesting comment you make that children can sense something though not fully understand it, so that it is not “foreign” to them. You say this relates to the ZPD.
> 15) You spoke of a “theory of design” that relates to dialectal processes. Worth expanding upon I am sure.
> 16) You spoke of “leniency”  (yours) regarding how long your children might spend mastering a skill, sensing that “fluency” requires it and when the practice becoms trivial to the child, they will get bored with it and move on. (See #4 and #13 above.) 
> 17) Finally, you noted that you didn’t cover metacognition, worth a talk in its own right.
> 
> Well done! 
> Henry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>> On Aug 15, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com <mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Anthony has posted a version with the synchronisation fixed here:
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaOg1B_Y40Y__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8TnK1JKxQ$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaOg1B_Y40Y__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_6AMpWquA$>
>> 
>> Best,
>> Huw
>> 
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 23:32, John Cripps Clark <john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au <mailto:john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au>> wrote:
>> Thank you, Anthony
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> For these and all the videos you have created and curated. I know that I, and many colleagues in the cultural-historical activity research community, have found them illuminating.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <>> on behalf of Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com <>>
>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <>>
>> Date: Saturday, 15 August 2020 at 3:19 am
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <>>
>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Huw, David, and Andy videos
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Good afternoon,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Those interested in our recently discussed "conscious awareness" passage (Thinking and Speech, Ch. 6) may well enjoy these video close-readings from David Kellogg and Andy Blunden.  I thank them both.
>> 
>> "Distinguishing spontaneous, scientific, and pseudo- concepts" (short excerpt) -  <>https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/oyansz__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8QjRdu64w$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/oyansz__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_4DJGpenw$>
>> "Spinoza, Chess, and Other Magic Gateways" -  <>https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/fyansz__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8QFdQDE-g$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/fyansz__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_6JTuvvfw$>
>> "Andy Blunden on Conscious Awareness" -  <>https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/kyansz__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8TuZjA9Pw$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/kyansz__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_47R4j8og$>
>> And thank you as well to Huw Lloyd for taking on the very wide topic of Vygotsky and parenting.
>> 
>> "Huw Lloyd on Parenting and Vygotsky!" -  <>https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/syansz__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8QSVmmPkQ$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/syansz__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_427L8FHg$>
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Anthony Barra
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone.
>> 
>> Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error or virus free.
> 
> 
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Huw, David, and Andy videos
> Date: August 25, 2020 at 6:58:29 PM MDT
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> 
> 
> Huw,
> It has taken me until now to find the time to view carefully your video. I think it was time well spent your answering Anthony’s question about your views on the application of Vygotsky to parenting. And I consider my time well spent taking notes to better understand your contribution. I hope anyone reading my notes will consider it time well spent. Please correct any misunderstandings on my part. Thanks to you and Anthony and to David K. for the reading from Vygotsky.
> 
> First of all, I appreciate very much the pace of your delivery. I had the sense you were thinking in depth as you spoke, at a pace that very often I could follow and take notes without a lot of rewinding. In the order your present your ideas, here is what I especially appreciated: 
> 1) Your construal of your thinking as Vygotsky inspired, rather than a strict adherence to Vygotsky’s writing
> 2) That you do not think that these ideas apply only to children’s development…I got the feeling, in fact, that you developed as an adult as you interacted with your children:)
> 3) You profiled the zone of proximal development as about “teachability”, that is the openness of the child to the scaffolding of the adult, rather than the level of intelligence. (Interestingly, I was just a reading from Vygotsky (see below) posted to the chat by David K., wherein Vygotsky calls this “realtive achievement. See paragraphs 21-24 especially.) 
> 4) The role of the adult as observer/participant without obstructing what you call the “orientation” of the child, a term I have seen you use often in posts to the chat. 
> 5) Encouraging the agency of the child, while helping them with a task. An example being picking up the child to turn on a light. 
> 7) Your sense that crises are often optional, if you know how to provide options, rather than demands, and still get the child to bed.
> 8) At about 1:05:30, I lost the thread of something you were saying about how you might address differences between your two children in your scaffolding. 
> 9) Interesting how you were the out-of-school parent, vis a vis the school-curriculum role of your wife. Furthermore, your sense, based on your own experience in comprehensive schooling in the UK, that schooling didn’t do you harm.
> 10) You described the process of your younger child learning to ride a bike with training wheels for two years, at which time he felt comfortable in riding without the training wheels. You let him decide when to make the change.
> 11) Your out-of-school scaffolding focused on projects and games, everyday activities, problems as food for thought to encourage independent thinking.
> 12) Covid-19 provided the conditions for alternative schooling from March to July. You did mornings, your wife did afternoons.
> 13) An interesting comment you make about “notational understanding” vs. “engaged understanding”, where the second kind of understanding facilitates the orientation of the child. (See #4 above.) 
> 14) An interesting comment you make that children can sense something though not fully understand it, so that it is not “foreign” to them. You say this relates to the ZPD.
> 15) You spoke of a “theory of design” that relates to dialectal processes. Worth expanding upon I am sure.
> 16) You spoke of “leniency”  (yours) regarding how long your children might spend mastering a skill, sensing that “fluency” requires it and when the practice becoms trivial to the child, they will get bored with it and move on. (See #4 and #13 above.) 
> 17) Finally, you noted that you didn’t cover metacognition, worth a talk in its own right.
> 
> Well done! 
> Henry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>> On Aug 15, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com <mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Anthony has posted a version with the synchronisation fixed here:
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaOg1B_Y40Y__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8TnK1JKxQ$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaOg1B_Y40Y__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_6AMpWquA$>
>> 
>> Best,
>> Huw
>> 
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 23:32, John Cripps Clark <john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au <mailto:john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au>> wrote:
>> Thank you, Anthony
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> For these and all the videos you have created and curated. I know that I, and many colleagues in the cultural-historical activity research community, have found them illuminating.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <>> on behalf of Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com <>>
>> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <>>
>> Date: Saturday, 15 August 2020 at 3:19 am
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <>>
>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Huw, David, and Andy videos
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Good afternoon,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Those interested in our recently discussed "conscious awareness" passage (Thinking and Speech, Ch. 6) may well enjoy these video close-readings from David Kellogg and Andy Blunden.  I thank them both.
>> 
>> "Distinguishing spontaneous, scientific, and pseudo- concepts" (short excerpt) -  <>https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/oyansz__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8QjRdu64w$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/oyansz__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_4DJGpenw$>
>> "Spinoza, Chess, and Other Magic Gateways" -  <>https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/fyansz__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8QFdQDE-g$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/fyansz__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_6JTuvvfw$>
>> "Andy Blunden on Conscious Awareness" -  <>https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/kyansz__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8TuZjA9Pw$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/kyansz__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_47R4j8og$>
>> And thank you as well to Huw Lloyd for taking on the very wide topic of Vygotsky and parenting.
>> 
>> "Huw Lloyd on Parenting and Vygotsky!" -  <>https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/syansz__;!!Mih3wA!WR51txswW48rXoyKIyjsmbK40-YLbgKFBpQFnBw77Smlh8PIdKlSs7RXbYLLL8QSVmmPkQ$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/syansz__;!!Mih3wA!Ss8AcSP9UnjylQTTtRt6rr9aKGripriFVVrDLHe0eSpAXNrDAlXv5ou9ncX7Q_427L8FHg$>
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Anthony Barra
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Important Notice: The contents of this email are intended solely for the named addressee and are confidential; any unauthorised use, reproduction or storage of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and any attachments immediately and advise the sender by return email or telephone.
>> 
>> Deakin University does not warrant that this email and any attachments are error or virus free.
> 
> 
> 

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