[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News?
robsub@ariadne.org.uk
robsub@ariadne.org.uk
Sat Apr 18 05:23:11 PDT 2020
In a nutshell what I took three paragraphs to say :-)
Rob
On 18/04/2020 13:14, Huw Lloyd wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
> Yes, the prospect of remote guidance seems more conducive to
> developmental education.
>
> Huw
>
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 23:35, robsub@ariadne.org.uk
> <mailto:robsub@ariadne.org.uk> <robsub@ariadne.org.uk
> <mailto:robsub@ariadne.org.uk>> wrote:
>
> Huw: "Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural
> means of student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry.
> One would hope that turning up and switching off is less viable --
> though this still seems to be happening in work meetings from what
> I can gather"
>
> From Twitter yesterday:
>
> "Found the kid playing with her dog instead of Zooming with her
> teacher. She told me not to worry. She took a screenshot of
> herself “paying attention,” then cut her video & replaced it with
> the picture. “It’s a gallery view of 20 kids, mom. They can’t tell.”"
>
> But on a more serious note, how are we comparing online and face
> to face presence? If we give a lecture lasting, say, an hour, how
> many students are paying attention for the whole hour? None. For
> half an hour, maybe? Or even less. People are very good at
> dissembling, at appearing to pay attention when their mind is
> elsewhere or has zoned out.
>
> Arguably learning online has more distractions and less of a
> requirement to appear to be paying attention, but it's possible
> that - if it's done well - the students may gain more by being
> able to ration their attention more effectively than they can in a
> sleepy lecture hall.
>
> The comparison is perfect for the activity theory triangle. The
> instruments - the human voice and the computer screen - have such
> different and manifold affordances.
>
> Rob
>
> On 17/04/2020 22:51, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>> The following may help bring things together, and move things
>> forward:
>>
>> 1. In response to Greg's request for anything more profound, I
>> offer a greater degree of self-awareness, in contribution towards
>> both cognition, appreciation, and the spiritual.
>> 2. In response to David's pointing to naming conventions. Yes,
>> this is relevant. And one can look to parallels with respect to
>> the manner of encountering historical ideas. E.g. the
>> dialectical naming of "sociotechnical" or "participant observer".
>> 3. With respect to Bonnie's referencing personality in relation
>> to CHAT/AT. From a developmental perspective one can certainly
>> enquire into this productively. The approach I have taken uses
>> intentionality or active orientation as a unit that represents a
>> synthesis of cognition, emotion, movement etc -- which are
>> typically considered as a platform for personality (e.g. MBTI).
>> 4. Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means
>> of student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One
>> would hope that turning up and switching off is less viable --
>> though this still seems to be happening in work meetings from
>> what I can gather.
>>
>> Perhaps all these calamities will also help people get over the
>> hump of the post-modernist view that "every view is equal', and
>> recognise that there is leverage in the structuring and nesting
>> of views of different scope.
>>
>> Best,
>> Huw
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 21:21, Helena Worthen
>> <helenaworthen@gmail.com <mailto:helenaworthen@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> IMHO, “elaborations in which political positions are
>> qualified as part of our arguments” are vital to the
>> relevance of this list.
>>
>> The Vygotskian tradition’s roots go deep in a period of
>> tumultuous, dangerous change — the Russian revolution - and
>> the people who formulated it did so in the face of threats,
>> loss of livelihood, suppression of research, etc. not so much
>> because their work was revolutionary but because there was a
>> revolution going on around them, stones flying everywhere.
>> Vygotsky was essential to the creation of education systems
>> in other countries in extreme conditions — my knowledge of
>> this comes from Vietnam. Vygotsky finally came to the US
>> despite McCarthyism etc. but here, over the last 30-40 years,
>> CHAT has been, as I think we have agreed, domesticated and
>> cured of its politics, to its detriment.
>>
>> Drawing the Vygotskian tradition and its current expressions
>> back into the fray, weaving theory and the facts of the
>> current crisis together, won’t be a bump-free project, but
>> let’s keep on with it.
>>
>> Generally speaking, avoiding irony, sarcasm and other things
>> that rely on tone of voice, and calling out someone by name
>> --not usually good even in praise (because it turns into a
>> one-on-one).
>>
>> Other than that, I’m not worried, I think we’re doing fine. —
>>
>> Helena Worthen
>> hworthen@illinois.edu <mailto:hworthen@illinois.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil
>>> <a.j.gil@ils.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@ils.uio.no>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear friends,
>>> It seems that this discussion is raising a number of
>>> interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit this
>>> list worth considering, and always in the most respectful
>>> manner.
>>> One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is
>>> that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well
>>> intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there
>>> is the risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is
>>> not that this happens always, but obviously is something to
>>> consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a
>>> healthy and important resource to keep with us, just knowing
>>> it is, by nature, a double-edged sword.
>>> The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is
>>> that, as it’s been made clear by a few participants, and by
>>> the way in the most considerate manner (thanks!), is that
>>> elaborations in which political positions are qualified as
>>> part of our arguments may be experienced as inappropriate.
>>> And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is
>>> particularly difficult because, at least as I see it,
>>> disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which
>>> issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically
>>> connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we
>>> discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues,
>>> if not issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they
>>> relate to our present and futures? And how can we discuss it
>>> without making reference to the concrete, specific
>>> historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of the
>>> countries we live in?
>>> And please, I am not here defending that this thread should
>>> continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is
>>> not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I
>>> have no clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate
>>> here. So I would appreciate if no references to A has said
>>> this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a
>>> lot a bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our
>>> colleague’s concerns and sensitivities is not right. But
>>> censoring political discussions, if these are voiced as part
>>> of an analysis of current matters of socio-historical
>>> relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note that
>>> many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you’ll have
>>> to excuse our ignorance.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alfredo
>>> *From:*<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of
>>> Edward Wall <ewall@umich.edu <mailto:ewall@umich.edu>>
>>> *Reply to:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>> *Date:*Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07
>>> *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain
>>> according to Fox News?
>>> Dear All
>>> I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off
>>> list, It is not that I don’t sympathize with the voiced
>>> frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and
>>> elsewhen.
>>> Ed
>>> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he
>>> is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for
>>> what he is.
>>>
>>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi
>>> <nardi@ics.uci.edu <mailto:nardi@ics.uci.edu>> wrote:
>>> Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least,
>>> how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and
>>> his everyday actions fall completely outside all social
>>> norms of decency, yet he is /consistently supported/by
>>> (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill
>>> Gates: “I don’t rule out voting for Trump if I have to
>>> pay too much in taxes”…) and (3) the
>>> alienated/uneducated class who’d rather at least have
>>> the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put
>>> up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation
>>> of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The
>>> "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all
>>> class-based in my view, but oddly variable.
>>> Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails.
>>> He could not have come to power had not the underlying
>>> conditions been ripe for it. He wasn’t the lesser of two
>>> evils for many voters — he was finally someone who they
>>> thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate
>>> boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews.
>>> Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and
>>> other places have them firmly ensconced.
>>> It’s damn weird to me that we’ve gone, in my lifetime,
>>> from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights,
>>> disability rights, and environmentalism, to the current
>>> horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better
>>> environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in
>>> the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a
>>> teenager gone bad, but that’s beside the point, this is
>>> now global, as Julian points out. We are all in this
>>> together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it,
>>> e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people,
>>> are, let’s face it, expendable, and we worry too much
>>> about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc.
>>> There’s as much of this on reddit as there is from
>>> Republicans.)
>>> What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society
>>> can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend
>>> Andre Gorz's /Paths to Paradise/. It's short, sweet, and
>>> prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems
>>> come from too much frenetic economic activity and that
>>> we are spending too much of our lives in alienating
>>> workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a
>>> lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for
>>> me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community
>>> (seehttps://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIra1sk7s_Q$>for
>>> all the papers going back to 2015).
>>> I think we absolutely have to address the big picture
>>> and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so
>>> on) are not going to do much.
>>> The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the
>>> environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air
>>> and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc.
>>> I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San
>>> Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down
>>> 40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds
>>> of changes which are global.
>>> I think we must look to what CHAT has written about
>>> personality. I have never really understood that work
>>> but I sense that it's important. The culture now
>>> produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their
>>> self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies,
>>> but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal
>>> town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the
>>> surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't
>>> normally out. They are probably getting their work done
>>> virtually in less time than normal (without a commute
>>> and the distractions of the office), and doing what they
>>> love doing! Maybe we need a world of walkers and
>>> surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people
>>> were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry
>>> -- all those homely ways of producing rather than
>>> working, often for very little money, so they can buy
>>> everything at the store. Most of it ends up in
>>> landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful
>>> it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard
>>> at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled
>>> to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by
>>> this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault.
>>> Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and
>>> that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the
>>> solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off
>>> to the workplace for most of their lives but to address
>>> issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so
>>> on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our
>>> current work habits to stem violence, for example. That
>>> is just not right.
>>> The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful
>>> work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz
>>> (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I
>>> think they are on the right track.
>>> Best,
>>> -
>>> Bonnie
>>> Bonnie Nardi
>>> Professor (Emer.)
>>> Department of Informatics
>>> School of Information and Computer Sciences
>>> 5088 Bren Hall
>>> UC Irvine 92697-3440
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!Tpf6886ezqvBH4afd65nPVccITLHI4A0lyuLcR7BTyz_dl31qCzFBVG1E91AbPWOslFn3A$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIrbdA0uVBQ$>
>>> NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing
>>> and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams
>>> <julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk
>>> <mailto:julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>> Mike, hi
>>> Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an
>>> even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion
>>> people are supposedly ‘shut down’ ( actually, many
>>> millions are walking hundreds of miles ‘home’ from
>>> the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but ..
>>> ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant
>>> before the crisis – is growing:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!Tpf6886ezqvBH4afd65nPVccITLHI4A0lyuLcR7BTyz_dl31qCzFBVG1E91AbPVMztkxJw$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!UAMlfob2n_Lh-WqpyVZk7kkIB6_iTHxnCHcoi9KlYa0gsgp20bbtBYAvZg22fqto0zXcVg$>
>>> We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in
>>> India if this gets going - and the fascists are
>>> planning to emerge dominant from this – all
>>> encouraged by your big man in the WH.
>>> These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem
>>> like small fry – will we ever see trials for crimes
>>> against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be
>>> difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional
>>> action, but maybe there should be a crime for
>>> intentional inaction? The abject state of public
>>> health systems (long term) and the incompetence and
>>> political management (short term) being the main
>>> charges.
>>> Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way
>>> the deaths are hugely discriminatory against
>>> black/ethnic minorities and the poor: “More than 70
>>> per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of
>>> Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting
>>> for just a third of the general population. In New
>>> York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per
>>> cent share of
>>> residents.”https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!Tpf6886ezqvBH4afd65nPVccITLHI4A0lyuLcR7BTyz_dl31qCzFBVG1E91AbPV8bx9r3Q$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!UAMlfob2n_Lh-WqpyVZk7kkIB6_iTHxnCHcoi9KlYa0gsgp20bbtBYAvZg22fqs1xrPL7g$> Globally
>>> translated – this will become a terrible indictment
>>> of the world’s structure of poverty:
>>> I had to pause the other day – is this kind of
>>> admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca
>>> listserve’s concerns: I think that’s a question for
>>> xmca – “are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of
>>> deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor
>>> nations?” The question is moot – only you people out
>>> there can say, or do by saying.
>>> Julian
>>> PS It’s good that in some parts of the world this
>>> information is still getting out. The middle east,
>>> and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult.
>>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf
>>> of mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>>
>>> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>> *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36
>>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number
>>> 19th strain according to Fox News?
>>> There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto
>>> fascists running this government, Julian.
>>> Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that
>>> might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan
>>> musical.
>>> mike
>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams
>>> <julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk
>>> <mailto:julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>> Kellyanne *Conwa*y … I think I heard her name a
>>> while back – what a Con, Ha ha?
>>> But perhaps not so very funny, right?
>>> God help us – it all fits – and now
>>> international pandemic and the next step is to
>>> defenestrate our only World Health Organisation…
>>> I can’t see anything short of a massive
>>> rebellion being an appropriate response… get
>>> those idiots out of the white house?
>>> Julian
>>>
>>> *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable
>>> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely
>>> suggested Wednesday that there had been 18
>>> previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she
>>> defended President Trump’s decision to suspend
>>> funding to the World Health Organization.
>>> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so
>>> you would think the people charged with the
>>> World Health Organization facts and figures
>>> would be on top of that,” Conway said during an
>>> interview on Fox News.
>>> In fact, the “19” at the end of the virus’s name
>>> denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that
>>> it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its
>>> outset, it was referred to by health officials
>>> as the “2019 novel coronavirus.”
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> the creation of utopias – and their exhaustive
>>> criticism – is the proper and distinctive method
>>> of sociology. H.G.Wells
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> For archival resources relevant to the research of
>>> myself and other members of LCHC, visit
>>> lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu/>. For archival
>>> materials and a narrative history of the research of
>>> LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
>>> <http://lchcautobio.ucsd.edu/>.
>>>
>>
>
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