[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News?

robsub@ariadne.org.uk robsub@ariadne.org.uk
Sat Apr 18 05:23:11 PDT 2020


In a nutshell what I took three paragraphs to say :-)

Rob

On 18/04/2020 13:14, Huw Lloyd wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
> Yes, the prospect of remote guidance seems more conducive to 
> developmental education.
>
> Huw
>
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 23:35, robsub@ariadne.org.uk 
> <mailto:robsub@ariadne.org.uk> <robsub@ariadne.org.uk 
> <mailto:robsub@ariadne.org.uk>> wrote:
>
>     Huw: "Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural
>     means of student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry.
>     One would hope that turning up and switching off is less viable --
>     though this still seems to be happening in work meetings from what
>     I can gather"
>
>     From Twitter yesterday:
>
>     "Found the kid playing with her dog instead of Zooming with her
>     teacher. She told me not to worry. She took a screenshot of
>     herself “paying attention,” then cut her video & replaced it with
>     the picture. “It’s a gallery view of 20 kids, mom. They can’t tell.”"
>
>     But on a more serious note, how are we comparing online and face
>     to face presence? If we give a lecture lasting, say, an hour, how
>     many students are paying attention for the whole hour? None. For
>     half an hour, maybe? Or even less. People are very good at
>     dissembling, at appearing to pay attention when their mind is
>     elsewhere or has zoned out.
>
>     Arguably learning online has more distractions and less of a
>     requirement to appear to be paying attention, but it's possible
>     that - if it's done well - the students may gain more by being
>     able to ration their attention more effectively than they can in a
>     sleepy lecture hall.
>
>     The comparison is perfect for the activity theory triangle. The
>     instruments - the human voice and the computer screen - have such
>     different and manifold affordances.
>
>     Rob
>
>     On 17/04/2020 22:51, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>     The following may help bring things together, and move things
>>     forward:
>>
>>     1. In response to Greg's request for anything more profound, I
>>     offer a greater degree of self-awareness, in contribution towards
>>     both cognition, appreciation, and the spiritual.
>>     2. In response to David's pointing to naming conventions. Yes,
>>     this is relevant. And one can look to parallels with respect to
>>     the manner of encountering historical ideas. E.g. the
>>     dialectical naming of "sociotechnical" or "participant observer".
>>     3. With respect to Bonnie's referencing personality in relation
>>     to CHAT/AT. From a developmental perspective one can certainly
>>     enquire into this productively. The approach I have taken uses
>>     intentionality or active orientation as a unit that represents a
>>     synthesis of cognition, emotion, movement etc -- which are
>>     typically considered as a platform for personality (e.g. MBTI).
>>     4. Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means
>>     of student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One
>>     would hope that turning up and switching off is less viable --
>>     though this still seems to be happening in work meetings from
>>     what I can gather.
>>
>>     Perhaps all these calamities will also help people get over the
>>     hump of the post-modernist view that "every view is equal', and
>>     recognise that there is leverage in the structuring and nesting
>>     of views of different scope.
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Huw
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 21:21, Helena Worthen
>>     <helenaworthen@gmail.com <mailto:helenaworthen@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         IMHO, “elaborations in which political positions are
>>         qualified as part of our arguments” are vital to the
>>         relevance of this list.
>>
>>         The Vygotskian tradition’s roots go deep in a period of
>>         tumultuous, dangerous change — the Russian revolution - and
>>         the people who formulated it did so in the face of threats,
>>         loss of livelihood, suppression of research, etc. not so much
>>         because their work was revolutionary but because there was a
>>         revolution going on around them, stones flying everywhere.
>>         Vygotsky was essential to the creation of education systems
>>         in other countries in extreme conditions — my knowledge of
>>         this comes from Vietnam. Vygotsky finally came to the US
>>         despite McCarthyism etc. but here, over the last 30-40 years,
>>         CHAT has been, as I think we have agreed, domesticated and
>>         cured of its politics, to its detriment.
>>
>>         Drawing the Vygotskian tradition and its current expressions
>>         back into the fray, weaving theory and the facts of the
>>         current crisis together, won’t be a bump-free project, but
>>         let’s keep on with it.
>>
>>         Generally speaking, avoiding irony, sarcasm and other things
>>         that rely on tone of voice, and calling out someone by  name
>>         --not usually good even in praise (because it turns into a
>>         one-on-one).
>>
>>         Other than that, I’m not worried, I think we’re doing fine.  —
>>
>>         Helena Worthen
>>         hworthen@illinois.edu <mailto:hworthen@illinois.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>         On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil
>>>         <a.j.gil@ils.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@ils.uio.no>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Dear friends,
>>>         It seems that this discussion is raising a number of
>>>         interesting challenges with regards to how to co-habit this
>>>         list worth considering, and always in the most respectful
>>>         manner.
>>>         One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is
>>>         that when members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well
>>>         intentioned as in the post that started this thread, there
>>>         is the risk that people do not find it appropriate. It is
>>>         not that this happens always, but obviously is something to
>>>         consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a
>>>         healthy and important resource to keep with us, just knowing
>>>         it is, by nature, a double-edged sword.
>>>         The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is
>>>         that, as it’s been made clear by a few participants, and by
>>>         the way in the most considerate manner (thanks!), is that
>>>         elaborations in which political positions are qualified as
>>>         part of our arguments may be experienced as inappropriate.
>>>         And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is
>>>         particularly difficult because, at least as I see it,
>>>         disconnecting politics from theory, in a list in which
>>>         issues of human mind and activity are intrinsically
>>>         connected to culture, is really not possible. What would we
>>>         discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues,
>>>         if not issues of politics, of social in/justice, as they
>>>         relate to our present and futures? And how can we discuss it
>>>         without making reference to the concrete, specific
>>>         historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of the
>>>         countries we live in?
>>>         And please, I am not here defending that this thread should
>>>         continue, or that there would not be reason to feel it is
>>>         not appropriate. I am just ignorant enough to realize that I
>>>         have no clue as to what sort of moderation is appropriate
>>>         here. So I would appreciate if no references to A has said
>>>         this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a
>>>         lot a bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our
>>>         colleague’s concerns and sensitivities is not right. But
>>>         censoring political discussions, if these are voiced as part
>>>         of an analysis of current matters of socio-historical
>>>         relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note that
>>>         many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you’ll have
>>>         to excuse our ignorance.
>>>         Thanks,
>>>         Alfredo
>>>         *From:*<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>>         <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of
>>>         Edward Wall <ewall@umich.edu <mailto:ewall@umich.edu>>
>>>         *Reply to:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>>         <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>>         *Date:*Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07
>>>         *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>>         <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>>         *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain
>>>         according to Fox News?
>>>         Dear All
>>>            I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off
>>>         list, It is not that I don’t sympathize with the voiced
>>>         frustrations, but I wish you would vent them elsewhere and
>>>         elsewhen.
>>>         Ed
>>>         Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he
>>>         is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for
>>>         what he is.
>>>
>>>             On Apr 16, 2020, at  5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi
>>>             <nardi@ics.uci.edu <mailto:nardi@ics.uci.edu>> wrote:
>>>             Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least,
>>>             how important class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and
>>>             his everyday actions fall completely outside all social
>>>             norms of decency, yet he is /consistently supported/by
>>>             (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill
>>>             Gates: “I don’t rule out voting for Trump if I have to
>>>             pay too much in taxes”…) and (3) the
>>>             alienated/uneducated class who’d rather at least have
>>>             the fun of throwing a brick through the window than put
>>>             up with any more PC bs (or abortion rights or separation
>>>             of church and state). A potent and scary mix. The
>>>             "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all
>>>             class-based in my view, but oddly variable.
>>>             Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails.
>>>             He could not have come to power had not the underlying
>>>             conditions been ripe for it. He wasn’t the lesser of two
>>>             evils for many voters — he was finally someone who they
>>>             thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate
>>>             boardrooms or NASCAR bleachers or evangelical pews.
>>>             Europe is also producing fascist-leaning leaders and
>>>             other places have them firmly ensconced.
>>>             It’s damn weird to me that we’ve gone, in my lifetime,
>>>             from U.S. leadership in gay rights, civil rights,
>>>             disability rights, and environmentalism,  to the current
>>>             horrendous situation. (Europe has implemented better
>>>             environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in
>>>             the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a
>>>             teenager gone bad, but that’s beside the point, this is
>>>             now global, as Julian points out.  We are all in this
>>>             together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it,
>>>             e.g., in the virus discussions about how old people,
>>>             are, let’s face it, expendable, and we worry too much
>>>             about them -- the young need to get back to work, etc.
>>>             There’s as much of this on reddit as there is from
>>>             Republicans.)
>>>             What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society
>>>             can and should be. As part of this exercise I recommend
>>>             Andre Gorz's /Paths to Paradise/. It's short, sweet, and
>>>             prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental problems
>>>             come from too much frenetic economic activity and that
>>>             we are spending too much of our lives in alienating
>>>             workplaces. He recommended a lot more automation and a
>>>             lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a touchstone for
>>>             me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community
>>>             (seehttps://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/
>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIra1sk7s_Q$>for
>>>             all the papers going back to 2015).
>>>             I think we absolutely have to address the big picture
>>>             and smaller efforts (like growing meat in labs and so
>>>             on) are not going to do much.
>>>             The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the
>>>             environment -- I have been astonished at how quickly air
>>>             and water are clearing, how animals are benefiting, etc.
>>>             I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San
>>>             Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down
>>>             40%. There's lots of good media reporting on these kinds
>>>             of changes which are global.
>>>             I think we must look to what CHAT has written about
>>>             personality. I have never really understood that work
>>>             but I sense that it's important. The culture now
>>>             produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their
>>>             self-branding and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies,
>>>             but other eras produced other types. I live in a coastal
>>>             town, and while the beach parking lots are closed, the
>>>             surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't
>>>             normally out. They are probably getting their work done
>>>             virtually in less time than normal (without a commute
>>>             and the distractions of the office), and doing what they
>>>             love doing!  Maybe we need a world of walkers and
>>>             surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people
>>>             were more focused on knitting, and baking, and carpentry
>>>             -- all those homely ways of producing rather than
>>>             working, often for very little money, so they can buy
>>>             everything at the store. Most of it ends up in
>>>             landfills, by design, or, if it's food, it is so awful
>>>             it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or working hard
>>>             at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled
>>>             to what one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by
>>>             this) and that if you are poor it's kind of your own fault.
>>>             Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and
>>>             that we can't produce everything ourselves, but the
>>>             solution to the big picture is not to send everyone off
>>>             to the workplace for most of their lives but to address
>>>             issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so
>>>             on in direct ways. We can't rely on by-products of our
>>>             current work habits to stem violence, for example. That
>>>             is just not right.
>>>             The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful
>>>             work, and I recommend what they write. They cite Gorz
>>>             (as well as Gandhi, Donella Meadows, and so on), and I
>>>             think they are on the right track.
>>>             Best,
>>>             -
>>>             Bonnie
>>>             Bonnie Nardi
>>>             Professor (Emer.)
>>>             Department of Informatics
>>>             School of Information and Computer Sciences
>>>             5088 Bren Hall
>>>             UC Irvine 92697-3440
>>>             https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!Tpf6886ezqvBH4afd65nPVccITLHI4A0lyuLcR7BTyz_dl31qCzFBVG1E91AbPWOslFn3A$ 
>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIrbdA0uVBQ$>
>>>             NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing
>>>             and Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017)
>>>
>>>
>>>                 On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams
>>>                 <julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk
>>>                 <mailto:julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>                 Mike, hi
>>>                 Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an
>>>                 even greater concern about India, where 1.4billion
>>>                 people are supposedly ‘shut down’ ( actually, many
>>>                 millions are walking hundreds of miles ‘home’ from
>>>                 the cities to their villages, wearing masks, but ..
>>>                  ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism - rampant
>>>                 before the crisis – is growing:
>>>                 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!Tpf6886ezqvBH4afd65nPVccITLHI4A0lyuLcR7BTyz_dl31qCzFBVG1E91AbPVMztkxJw$ 
>>>                 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!UAMlfob2n_Lh-WqpyVZk7kkIB6_iTHxnCHcoi9KlYa0gsgp20bbtBYAvZg22fqto0zXcVg$>
>>>                 We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in
>>>                 India  if this gets going -  and the fascists are
>>>                 planning to emerge dominant from this – all
>>>                 encouraged by your big man in the WH.
>>>                 These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem
>>>                 like small fry – will we ever see trials for crimes
>>>                 against humanity? Perhaps not, because it will be
>>>                 difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional
>>>                 action, but maybe there should be a crime for
>>>                 intentional inaction? The abject state of public
>>>                 health systems (long term) and the incompetence and
>>>                 political management (short term) being the main
>>>                 charges.
>>>                 Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way
>>>                 the deaths are hugely discriminatory against
>>>                 black/ethnic minorities and the poor: “More than 70
>>>                 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of
>>>                 Louisiana were African-Americans, despite accounting
>>>                 for just a third of the general population. In New
>>>                 York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per
>>>                 cent share of
>>>                 residents.”https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!Tpf6886ezqvBH4afd65nPVccITLHI4A0lyuLcR7BTyz_dl31qCzFBVG1E91AbPV8bx9r3Q$ 
>>>                 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!UAMlfob2n_Lh-WqpyVZk7kkIB6_iTHxnCHcoi9KlYa0gsgp20bbtBYAvZg22fqs1xrPL7g$>  Globally
>>>                 translated – this will become a terrible indictment
>>>                 of the world’s structure of poverty:
>>>                 I had to pause the other day – is this kind of
>>>                 admittedly political posting appropriate to xmca
>>>                 listserve’s concerns: I think that’s a question for
>>>                 xmca – “are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of
>>>                 deaths likely as the pandemic spreads to the poor
>>>                 nations?” The question is moot – only you people out
>>>                 there can say, or do by saying.
>>>                 Julian
>>>                 PS It’s good that in some parts of the world this
>>>                 information is still getting out. The middle east,
>>>                 and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more difficult.
>>>                 *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>>                 <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf
>>>                 of mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>>
>>>                 *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>>                 <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>>                 <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>>                 *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36
>>>                 *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>>                 <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>>                 <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>>                 *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number
>>>                 19th strain according to Fox News?
>>>                 There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto
>>>                 fascists running this government, Julian.
>>>                 Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that
>>>                 might be funny if it were a Gilbert and Sullivan
>>>                 musical.
>>>                 mike
>>>                 On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams
>>>                 <julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk
>>>                 <mailto:julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     Dear all,
>>>                     Kellyanne *Conwa*y … I think I heard her name a
>>>                     while back – what a Con, Ha ha?
>>>                     But perhaps not so very funny, right?
>>>                     God help us – it all fits – and now
>>>                     international pandemic and the next step is to
>>>                     defenestrate our only World Health Organisation…
>>>                     I can’t see anything short of a massive
>>>                     rebellion being an appropriate response… get
>>>                     those idiots out of the white house?
>>>                     Julian
>>>
>>>                     *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable
>>>                     White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely
>>>                     suggested Wednesday that there had been 18
>>>                     previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she
>>>                     defended President Trump’s decision to suspend
>>>                     funding to the World Health Organization.
>>>                     "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so
>>>                     you would think the people charged with the
>>>                     World Health Organization facts and figures
>>>                     would be on top of that,” Conway said during an
>>>                     interview on Fox News.
>>>                     In fact, the “19” at the end of the virus’s name
>>>                     denotes that it was discovered in 2019, not that
>>>                     it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its
>>>                     outset, it was referred to by health officials
>>>                     as the “2019 novel coronavirus.”
>>>
>>>
>>>                 -- 
>>>
>>>                     the creation of utopias – and their exhaustive
>>>                     criticism – is the proper and distinctive method
>>>                     of sociology. H.G.Wells
>>>
>>>                 ---------------------------------------------------
>>>                 For archival resources relevant to the research of
>>>                 myself and other members of LCHC, visit
>>>                 lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu/>. For archival
>>>                 materials and a narrative history of the research of
>>>                 LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
>>>                 <http://lchcautobio.ucsd.edu/>.
>>>
>>
>

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