[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to Fox News?

Sat Apr 18 05:14:05 PDT 2020

Hi Rob,

Yes, the prospect of remote guidance seems more conducive to
developmental education.

Huw

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 23:35, robsub@ariadne.org.uk <robsub@ariadne.org.uk>
wrote:

> Huw: "Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means of
> student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One would hope
> that turning up and switching off is less viable -- though this still seems
> to be happening in work meetings from what I can gather"
>
> From Twitter yesterday:
>
> "Found the kid playing with her dog instead of Zooming with her teacher.
> She told me not to worry. She took a screenshot of herself “paying
> attention,” then cut her video & replaced it with the picture. “It’s a
> gallery view of 20 kids, mom. They can’t tell.”"
>
> But on a more serious note, how are we comparing online and face to face
> presence? If we give a lecture lasting, say, an hour, how many students are
> paying attention for the whole hour? None. For half an hour, maybe? Or even
> less. People are very good at dissembling, at appearing to pay attention
> when their mind is elsewhere or has zoned out.
>
> Arguably learning online has more distractions and less of a requirement
> to appear to be paying attention, but it's possible that - if it's done
> well - the students may gain more by being able to ration their attention
> more effectively than they can in a sleepy lecture hall.
>
> The comparison is perfect for the activity theory triangle. The
> instruments - the human voice and the computer screen - have such different
> and manifold affordances.
>
> Rob
>
> On 17/04/2020 22:51, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>
> The following may help bring things together, and move things forward:
>
> 1. In response to Greg's request for anything more profound, I offer a
> greater degree of self-awareness, in contribution towards both cognition,
> appreciation, and the spiritual.
> 2. In response to David's pointing to naming conventions. Yes, this is
> relevant. And one can look to parallels with respect to the manner of
> encountering historical ideas. E.g. the dialectical naming of
> "sociotechnical" or "participant observer".
> 3. With respect to Bonnie's referencing personality in relation to
> CHAT/AT. From a developmental perspective one can certainly enquire into
> this productively. The approach I have taken uses intentionality or active
> orientation as a unit that represents a synthesis of cognition, emotion,
> movement etc -- which are typically considered as a platform for
> personality (e.g. MBTI).
> 4. Regarding distance learning. It strikes me as a natural means of
> student self-selection regarding engagement and enquiry. One would hope
> that turning up and switching off is less viable -- though this still seems
> to be happening in work meetings from what I can gather.
>
> Perhaps all these calamities will also help people get over the hump of
> the post-modernist view that "every view is equal', and recognise that
> there is leverage in the structuring and nesting of views of different
> scope.
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 21:21, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> IMHO, “elaborations in which political positions are qualified as part
>> of our arguments” are vital to the relevance of this list.
>>
>> The Vygotskian tradition’s roots go deep in a period of tumultuous,
>> dangerous change — the Russian revolution - and the people who formulated
>> it did so in the face of threats, loss of livelihood, suppression of
>> research, etc. not so much because their work was revolutionary but because
>> there was a revolution going on around them, stones flying everywhere.
>> Vygotsky was essential to the creation of education systems in other
>> countries in extreme conditions — my knowledge of this comes from Vietnam.
>> Vygotsky finally came to the US despite McCarthyism etc. but here, over the
>> last 30-40 years, CHAT has been, as I think we have agreed, domesticated
>> and cured of its politics, to its detriment.
>>
>> Drawing the Vygotskian tradition and its current expressions back into
>> the fray, weaving theory and the facts of the current crisis together,
>> won’t be a bump-free project, but let’s keep on with it.
>>
>> Generally speaking, avoiding irony, sarcasm and other things that rely on
>> tone of voice, and calling out someone by  name --not usually good even in
>> praise (because it turns into a one-on-one).
>>
>> Other than that, I’m not worried, I think we’re doing fine.  —
>>
>> Helena Worthen
>> hworthen@illinois.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@ils.uio.no>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> It seems that this discussion is raising a number of interesting
>> challenges with regards to how to co-habit this list worth considering, and
>> always in the most respectful manner.
>>
>> One thing that I think is clear and always takes place is that when
>> members use irony and/or sarcasm, even in as well intentioned as in the
>> post that started this thread, there is the risk that people do not find it
>> appropriate. It is not that this happens always, but obviously is something
>> to consider before posting on those terms. I believe irony is a healthy and
>> important resource to keep with us, just knowing it is, by nature, a
>> double-edged sword.
>>
>> The other thing, which I believe is more challenging, is that, as it’s
>> been made clear by a few participants, and by the way in the most
>> considerate manner (thanks!), is that elaborations in which political
>> positions are qualified as part of our arguments may be experienced as
>> inappropriate. And I wonder what to do with this as a community? This is
>> particularly difficult because, at least as I see it, disconnecting
>> politics from theory, in a list in which issues of human mind and activity
>> are intrinsically connected to culture, is really not possible. What would
>> we discuss, as a community interested in CHAT related issues, if not issues
>> of politics, of social in/justice, as they relate to our present and
>> futures? And how can we discuss it without making reference to the
>> concrete, specific historical cases, public figures, parties, realities of
>> the countries we live in?
>>
>> And please, I am not here defending that this thread should continue, or
>> that there would not be reason to feel it is not appropriate. I am just
>> ignorant enough to realize that I have no clue as to what sort of
>> moderation is appropriate here. So I would appreciate if no references to A
>> has said this, or B has done that, are made; but would appreciate a lot a
>> bit of help on this issue. I think that ignoring our colleague’s concerns
>> and sensitivities is not right. But censoring political discussions, if
>> these are voiced as part of an analysis of current matters of
>> socio-historical relevance, does not feel right either. And please, note
>> that many of us are not US citizens or residents, so you’ll have to excuse
>> our ignorance.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alfredo
>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Edward Wall <
>> ewall@umich.edu>
>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Date: *Friday, 17 April 2020 at 01:07
>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according to
>> Fox News?
>>
>> Dear All
>>
>>      I would appreciate if we could take such discussions off list, It is
>> not that I don’t sympathize with the voiced frustrations, but I wish you
>> would vent them elsewhere and elsewhen.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a
>> sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 16, 2020, at  5:40 PM, Bonnie Nardi <nardi@ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Watching the debacle of Trump reveals, to me at least, how important
>> class analysis is. Trump is deranged, and his everyday actions fall
>> completely outside all social norms of decency, yet he is *consistently
>> supported* by (1) his Republican cohorts, (2) big business (Bill Gates:
>> “I don’t rule out voting for Trump if I have to pay too much in taxes”…)
>> and (3) the alienated/uneducated class who’d rather at least have the fun
>> of throwing a brick through the window than put up with any more PC bs (or
>> abortion rights or separation of church and state). A potent and scary mix.
>> The "complicity" Greg mentioned has several sources, all class-based in my
>> view, but oddly variable.
>>
>> Trump is a symptom of a society running off the rails. He could not have
>> come to power had not the underlying conditions been ripe for it. He wasn’t
>> the lesser of two evils for many voters — he was finally someone who they
>> thought spoke for them whether they occupied corporate boardrooms or NASCAR
>> bleachers or evangelical pews. Europe is also producing fascist-leaning
>> leaders and other places have them firmly ensconced.
>>
>> It’s damn weird to me that we’ve gone, in my lifetime, from U.S.
>> leadership in gay rights, civil rights, disability rights, and
>> environmentalism,  to the current horrendous situation. (Europe has
>> implemented better environmental policies but the groundwork was laid in
>> the U.S.) I love the U.S. the way a parent still loves a teenager gone bad,
>> but that’s beside the point, this is now global, as Julian points out.  We
>> are all in this together. Neoliberalism deftly divides us (I see it, e.g.,
>> in the virus discussions about how old people, are, let’s face it,
>> expendable, and we worry too much about them -- the young need to get back
>> to work, etc. There’s as much of this on reddit as there is from
>> Republicans.)
>>
>> What to do? The first thing is to rethink what a society can and should
>> be. As part of this exercise I recommend Andre Gorz's *Paths to Paradise*.
>> It's short, sweet, and prescient. Gorz recognized that environmental
>> problems come from too much frenetic economic activity and that we are
>> spending too much of our lives in alienating workplaces. He recommended a
>> lot more automation and a lot more sharing of wealth. He has been a
>> touchstone for me and others in the Computing within LIMITS community (see
>>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!VD2aDvwDUecbbCZUQp2nzRXcmIgKhSVGV2zFcHlQ8i9BN-2P-VcVoCwhY9zo_Y46wgSOIw$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/computingwithinlimits.org/2020/__;!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIra1sk7s_Q$>
>>  for all the papers going back to 2015).
>>
>> I think we absolutely have to address the big picture and smaller efforts
>> (like growing meat in labs and so on) are not going to do much.
>>
>> The pandemic has shown Gorz to be right about the environment -- I have
>> been astonished at how quickly air and water are clearing, how animals are
>> benefiting, etc. I didn't expect all that to happen so fast. In the San
>> Francisco Bay Area where I live, air pollution is down 40%. There's lots of
>> good media reporting on these kinds of changes which are global.
>>
>> I think we must look to what CHAT has written about personality. I have
>> never really understood that work but I sense that it's important. The
>> culture now produces neoliberal "entrepreneurs" with their self-branding
>> and paddle-your-own-canoe philosophies, but other eras produced other
>> types. I live in a coastal town, and while the beach parking lots are
>> closed, the surfers, walkers, and cyclists are out when they aren't
>> normally out. They are probably getting their work done virtually in less
>> time than normal (without a commute and the distractions of the office),
>> and doing what they love doing!  Maybe we need a world of walkers and
>> surfers -- that personality type. I'd be happy if people were more focused
>> on knitting, and baking, and carpentry -- all those homely ways of
>> producing rather than working, often for very little money, so they can buy
>> everything at the store. Most of it ends up in landfills, by design, or, if
>> it's food, it is so awful it contributes to the chronic diseases. Or
>> working hard at high end jobs and ending up feeling one is entitled to what
>> one has (the Bay Area has been badly affected by this) and that if you are
>> poor it's kind of your own fault.
>>
>> Yes, I recognize that staying home more has costs and that we can't
>> produce everything ourselves, but the solution to the big picture is not to
>> send everyone off to the workplace for most of their lives but to address
>> issues of violence, production, quality of life, and so on in direct ways.
>> We can't rely on by-products of our current work habits to stem violence,
>> for example. That is just not right.
>>
>> The post-growth movement in Europe is doing thoughtful work, and I
>> recommend what they write. They cite Gorz (as well as Gandhi, Donella
>> Meadows, and so on), and I think they are on the right track.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -
>>
>> Bonnie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bonnie Nardi
>> Professor (Emer.)
>> Department of Informatics
>> School of Information and Computer Sciences
>> 5088 Bren Hall
>> UC Irvine 92697-3440
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!VD2aDvwDUecbbCZUQp2nzRXcmIgKhSVGV2zFcHlQ8i9BN-2P-VcVoCwhY9zo_Y7Dxkvkyg$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/darrouzet-nardi.net/bonnie__;!!Mih3wA!X6Z1zy1ywvBUsh4PLzAdjWe7J-gfCIiKCjavnOndv0aE8iksRfWM1OkKDsjdIrbdA0uVBQ$>
>> NEW BOOK: Heteromation and Other Stories of Computing and
>> Capitalism (with Hamid Ekbia, MIT Press, 2017)
>>
>>
>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Julian Williams <
>> julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Mike, hi
>>
>> Surely not funny, of course. And we should have an even greater concern
>> about India, where 1.4billion people are supposedly ‘shut down’ ( actually,
>> many millions are walking hundreds of miles ‘home’ from the cities to their
>> villages, wearing masks, but ..  ), and nationalist, anti-Muslim extremism
>> - rampant before the crisis – is growing:
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!VD2aDvwDUecbbCZUQp2nzRXcmIgKhSVGV2zFcHlQ8i9BN-2P-VcVoCwhY9zo_Y5VKyIP3g$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/arundhati_roy_coronavirus_india?utm_source=Democracy*Now*21&utm_campaign=5b85440b98-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-5b85440b98-192514813__;KyU!!Mih3wA!UAMlfob2n_Lh-WqpyVZk7kkIB6_iTHxnCHcoi9KlYa0gsgp20bbtBYAvZg22fqto0zXcVg$>
>>
>> We can anticipate at least 40 million deaths in India  if this gets going
>> -  and the fascists are planning to emerge dominant from this – all
>> encouraged by your big man in the WH.
>>
>> These deaths will perhaps make the holocaust seem like small fry – will
>> we ever see trials for crimes against humanity? Perhaps not, because it
>> will be difficult to pin these deaths on to intentional action, but maybe
>> there should be a crime for intentional inaction? The abject state of
>> public health systems (long term) and the incompetence and political
>> management (short term) being the main charges.
>>
>> Then in the US we can see some analyses of the way the deaths are hugely
>> discriminatory against black/ethnic minorities and the poor: “More than
>> 70 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the state of Louisiana were
>> African-Americans, despite accounting for just a third of the general
>> population. In New York City it's 17 per cent of deaths, for a 9 per cent
>> share of residents.”
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!VD2aDvwDUecbbCZUQp2nzRXcmIgKhSVGV2zFcHlQ8i9BN-2P-VcVoCwhY9zo_Y5fGRdn_A$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-16/drum-covid-african-american-affected/12153268__;!!Mih3wA!UAMlfob2n_Lh-WqpyVZk7kkIB6_iTHxnCHcoi9KlYa0gsgp20bbtBYAvZg22fqs1xrPL7g$>  Globally
>> translated – this will become a terrible indictment of the world’s
>> structure of poverty:
>>
>> I had to pause the other day – is this kind of admittedly political
>> posting appropriate to xmca listserve’s concerns: I think that’s a question
>> for xmca – “are we/is xmca relevant to the millions of deaths likely as the
>> pandemic spreads to the poor nations?” The question is moot – only you
>> people out there can say, or do by saying.
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> PS It’s good that in some parts of the world this information is still
>> getting out. The middle east, and Africa, in many parts, maybe is more
>> difficult.
>>
>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of mike cole <
>> mcole@ucsd.edu>
>> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Date: *Thursday, 16 April 2020 at 18:36
>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: FW: Unbelievable: number 19th strain according
>> to Fox News?
>>
>> There is absolutely nothing funny about the crypto fascists running this
>> government, Julian.
>> Trump is pushing towar monarchy in a fashion that might be funny if it
>> were a Gilbert and Sullivan
>> musical.
>> mike
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julian Williams <
>> julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Kellyanne *Conwa*y … I think I heard her name a while back – what a Con,
>> Ha ha?
>>
>> But perhaps not so very funny, right?
>>
>> God help us – it all fits – and now international pandemic and the next
>> step is to defenestrate our only World Health Organisation…
>>
>> I can’t see anything short of a massive rebellion being an appropriate
>> response… get those idiots out of the white house?
>>
>> Julian
>>
>>
>> *Subject: *Fwd: Unbelievable
>>
>> White House counselor Kellyanne Conway falsely suggested Wednesday that
>> there had been 18 previous strains of the novel coronavirus as she defended
>> President Trump’s decision to suspend funding to the World Health
>> Organization.
>>
>> "This is covid-19, not covid-1, folks, and so you would think the people
>> charged with the World Health Organization facts and figures would be on
>> top of that,” Conway said during an interview on Fox News.
>>
>> In fact, the “19” at the end of the virus’s name denotes that it was
>> discovered in 2019, not that it is the 19th strain of the virus. At its
>> outset, it was referred to by health officials as the “2019 novel
>> coronavirus.”
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> the creation of utopias – and their exhaustive criticism – is the proper
>> and distinctive method of sociology.  H.G.Wells
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other
>> members of LCHC, visit
>> lchc.ucsd.edu.  For archival materials and a narrative history of the
>> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
>>
>>
>>
>
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