[Xmca-l] Re: Where is Marx in the work and thought of Vygotsky? by Lucien Seve

[Wagner Luiz Schmit]

Maybe my English is not so good, but I am looking forward to a better
translation.

This paper met with a lot of stuff that I already think, for me Marx is
everywhere in Vygotsky's works, and for me ZPD only made sense after
reading chapter 6 of thinking and speech again through the lens of
psychological systems and personality.

I wanted to know more about the distance between Leontiev and Vygotsky.
Seve's paper starts to point out something, but I am not so well versed in
Activity Theory to go further by myself.

Wagner
State University of São Paulo
Vivência Institute

On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 2:14 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:

> Andy--
>
> The translation was a commercial one; Lucien Seve wanted to have it
> translated so that Anton Yasnitsky and Carl Ratner would respond to it, but
> neither one mentioned it. When I asked Anton after his talk he said that he
> found the first page so error-ridden he gave up. I have (with Lucien Seve's
> permission) retranslated it; it should come out in MCA later this year.
>
> I think that part of Seve's point in this paper is that Vygotsky the
> psychologist is Vygotsky misconceived: de-socialized, de-culturized, and
> de-Marxified. But Vygotsky the pedologist makes perfect sense, so long as
> we understand that pedology is not "child psychology"--it's not a branch of
> some larger purer science called psychology; on the contrary, for Vygotsky,
> psychology was a specialized tool in the pedologist's kit, and pedology
> itself is part of much larger science of human development, inevitably
> linked to sociogenetic ideas of the nature of human progress.
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article:
> Han Hee Jeung & David Kellogg (2019): A story without SELF: Vygotsky’s
> pedology, Bruner’s constructivism and Halliday’s construalism in
> understanding narratives by
> Korean children, Language and Education, DOI: 10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
> To link to this article: https://doi.org/10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>
> Some e-prints available at:
>
> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/KHRxrQ4n45t9N2ZHZhQK/full?target=10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 8:13 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
>> Just a couple of remarks on this very interesting paper:
>>
>> (1) When I read "Thought & Language" (the 1962 translation) - my first
>> Vygotsky, I instantly recognised as a work of Marxism, and one informed by
>> Hegel to boot. Which verifies Seve's obvious point that cutting out the
>> explicit references to Marx does not remove the Marxist character of the
>> work.
>>
>> (2) Seve (in my view) completely misunderstands Hegel's idea of
>> "concept", attributing to Hegel the analytical view which Vygotsky also
>> used up until 1931, at which point he came in contact with Hegelians. Marx
>> made numerous "corrections" to Hegel, but the form of the concept was not
>> one of those.
>>
>> (3) The meaning of Taetigkeit, Handlung, Aktivitaet, Praxis, etc., the
>> various words in German, English and Russian, for "activity" is not cut and
>> dry - different writers use different words differently. But despite the
>> importance of the "productivist" interpretation of "Praxis" in anthropology
>> and historiography, it has always seemed to me that the more general
>> meaning of "purposive (social, artefact mediated) activity" is more
>> appropriate for Psychology, and the meaning Vygotsky had in mind. It seems
>> that Leontyev perversely agrees with this because of his spiteful attack on
>> Vygotsky's supposed "idealism" (See JREEP v. 43, 2005) for not
>> understanding "Praxis" in this productivist way.
>>
>> Still, very welcome article. Pity some of us Anglophones, like me, are so
>> ignorant of the French language.
>>
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 30/06/2019 11:08 am, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>
>> Attachment may be of interest to people on this list.
>>
>> Andy
>> --
>> ------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>
>>
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