[Xmca-l] Re: Translation or Paraphrase?

[Andy Blunden]

Firstly, I have checked the transcription, and it is indeed 
true to the /LSVCW/ version. Originally, the old "Thought 
and Language" translation had been used here, but a few 
years ago I replaced it with Minick's.

My initial reaction is that Minick's rendering of the 
sentence is much easier to read and understand. What is the 
issue for you?

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 12/06/2019 6:41 am, David Kellogg wrote:
> Andy:
>
> On Vygotsky Internet Archive  version of T&S Chapter Five, 
> Section Five, second paragraph, we've got this.
>
> "Nevertheless, this mode of uniting concrete objects in a 
> common group differs from that based on thinking in 
> concepts or conceptual thinking. First, the nature of the 
> connections that are established among the objects in the 
> group differs from that characteristic of concepts. 
> Second, as defined by the relationship of each object in 
> the group to the group as a whole, the structure of the 
> unified group differs profoundly in type and mode of 
> activity from that based on conceptual thinking."
>
> The Russian, in both the first 1934 edition and the 1982 
> Russian CW edition is this:
>
>
> Но способ объединения различных конкретных предметов в 
> общие группы, характер устанавливаемых при этом связей, 
> структура возникающих на основе такого мышления единств, 
> характеризующаяся отношением каждого отдельного предмета, 
> входящего в состав группы, ко всей группе в целом, — все 
> это глубоко отличается по своему типу и по способу 
> деятельности от мышления в понятиях, развивающихся только 
> в эпоху полового созревания.
>
> The 1994 Vygotsky Reader, edited by Rene van der Veer and 
> Jaan Valsiner, uses the 1931 "Pedology of the Adolescent" 
> version of this study for its Chapter Nine. On p. 218, 
> it's got this:
>
> "But the manner of the unification of different real 
> objects into general groups, the character of the 
> connections which becomes established during th is 
> process, the structure of the affinities which arise on 
> the basis of such thinking, which is characterized by the 
> relationship of each individual object having become part 
> of the composition of the group, to the group as a whole - 
> all th is is fundamentally different by its nature and the 
> manner of its operation from thinking in concepts, which 
> only develops at the time of puberty."
>
>
> This Vygotsky Reader version is an actual translation, but 
> the version we have for T&S Chapter Five, which I assume 
> is an accurate transcription of Norris Minick's version in 
> the English CW, seems little more than a paraphrase. What 
> gives?
>
>
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article:
> Han Hee Jeung & David Kellogg (2019): A story without 
> SELF: Vygotsky’s
> pedology, Bruner’s constructivism and Halliday’s 
> construalism in understanding narratives by
> Korean children, Language and Education, DOI: 
> 10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
> To link to this article: 
> https://doi.org/10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>
> Some e-prints available at:
> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/KHRxrQ4n45t9N2ZHZhQK/full?target=10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20190612/ad3ab1c3/attachment.html