[Xmca-l] Re: Do we find Inequalities in wild life system?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Wed Jan 30 00:14:31 PST 2019
Where there is a state there is most likely inequality and
injustice, Annalie.
Where do you see inequality and injustice as arising from?
andy
------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 30/01/2019 7:03 pm, Annalie Pistorius wrote:
>
> What about the inter-cultural historical?
>
> Annalie
>
> (Im a clinical psychologist from South Africa)
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *Martin Packer
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 29, 2019 5:18 PM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Do we find Inequalities in wild
> life system?
>
> Well, I was going to add that culture would be generally
> considered an intersubjective phenomenon, rather than
> subjective or objective. So it could be said that what
> this discussion group is about — the C in XMCA — is
> intersubjectivity.
>
> Should intersubjectivity be transcended? I think, Andy,
> that you may be reading the word as some kind of merging
> or sharing of subjectivities. Which is indeed how the word
> has been used here not long ago. But Charles Taylor, for
> example, defined intersubjectivity as meanings and norms
> that exist in practices, not in individuals' minds. The
> materiality of culture — material artefacts — seems to me
> to be a very good example of this.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Jan 29, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Andy Blunden
> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>
> It's my view, Martin, that in making actions, including
> intersubjective actions,/essentially/artefact-mediated,
> Vygotsky transcended "intersubjectivity." His citing of
> Marx citing Hegel on the "cunning of reason" is no accident.
>
> Hegel has what he calls (in typical Hegel style) the
> "syllogism of action." This is the culminating concept of
> the Logic making the transition to the Absolute Idea and
> Nature. Hegel points out, and Marx picks up on this, that
> this means that every action is mediated by material
> culture. Hegel says "the plough is more honourable than
> anything produced by its means." For Marx, this is about
> the importance of ownership of the means of production.
> For Vygotsky, it is what makes Cultural Psychology what it is.
>
> Emphasising the culture in the middle in no way minimises
> the constructive role of language use, but it means that
> the language itself plays, maybe. the more "honourable"
> role. :)
>
> andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>
> On 30/01/2019 1:41 am, Martin Packer wrote:
>
> There was a general recognition in the social sciences
> (including philosophy) some time ago that it is
> crucial to recognize the existence and importance of
> “intersubjective” phenomena. Language, for example,
> is not subjective, it is intersubjective. As Andy
> notes, subjectivity and even objectivity (think
> Latour’s analysis of science in Laboratory Life) arise
> from and are dependent upon intersubjective phenomena.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Jan 29, 2019, at 12:15 AM, Andy Blunden
> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>
> When you get the electric chair for murdering someone
> that is not a linguistic construct.
>
> andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>
> On 29/01/2019 2:49 pm, Adam Poole (16517826) wrote:
>
> Perhaps it may be more appropriate to use the term
> 'quasi-objective form', as the medium through
> which concepts like inequality and injustice are
> made objective, language, is itself inherently
> subjective. For example, justice can be given
> objective form in law, but the law itself is
> comprised of language, customs, traditions,
> beliefs, etc. The manifestation of an objective
> form is not universal, but will differ depending
> on cultural context. Hence quasi-objective.
> Concepts like inequality are given objective form,
> but it doesn't mean that they are objective
> in nature, due to the mediating role of language.
>
> Adam
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>on behalf
> of Andy Blunden<andyb@marxists.org>
> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>
> *Sent:*29 January 2019 08:16:35
> *To:*xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Do we find Inequalities in
> wild life system?
>
> Mmm, "subjective" is a polysemous word, Huw. It is
> not a matter of precision but of relativity.
> "Inequality" is a famously contested concept, as
> is "injustice," but its contestation is
> necessarily in a social context and with social
> content. Justice and equality are given objective
> form in law and social policy in definite,
> really-existing states or organisations
> challenging for state power, not the opinion of
> individuals.
>
> andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>
> On 29/01/2019 1:50 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>
> It isn't "subjective", Andy. Rather it is
> limited to a certain construal. One can be
> quite precise and objective about that construal.
>
> Huw
>
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 14:14, Andy Blunden
> <andyb@marxists.org
> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>
> I can't agree that with your suggestion,
> Huw, that inequality (in the meaning with
> which Harshad used it) is something
> subjective, in the eye of the beholder.
> Such a view would be very pernicious
> politically. The fact is that states have
> emerged and developed over many centuries
> so as to makes objective certain concepts
> of justice, among which are various
> qualified and nuances notions of equality.
> This is not figment of my imagination.
>
> andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>
> On 29/01/2019 12:59 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>
> We find "wild life" systems that are
> imbalanced and subject to radical changes.
>
> Inequality is a perceptual/cognitive
> construct and predicated on an
> ontological scope. We find the
> condition of inequality (or
> comparison) in our thinking and
> behaviour. Every living thing "finds"
> inequalities. We do not find
> inequality, we find the awareness of
> inequality.
>
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 08:17, James Ma
> <jamesma320@gmail.com
> <mailto:jamesma320@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Should you find inequality within
> a wildlife system, that must be a
> political, ideological precept!
>
> James
>
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 07:56,
> James Ma <jamesma320@gmail.com
> <mailto:jamesma320@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Not only is it meaningless but
> also preposterous. To maintain
> that all members of the same
> species are equal, as Anne
> Moir and David Jessel put it,
> is to "build a society based
> on a biological and scientific
> lie".
>
> James
>
> PS: I'm apolitical - anything
> political, ideological just
> doesn't speak to me!
>
> */_______________________________________________________/*
>
> */James Ma /*/Independent
> Scholarhttps://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
> /
>
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 05:27,
> Andy Blunden
> <andyb@marxists.org
> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
> wrote:
>
> Harshad,
>
> "Inequality" is a
> meaningless concept when
> referred to Nature.
> Likewise "Injustice."
>
> Justice and equality are
> relevant only to the
> extent that the subjects
> are living in an
> 'artificial' world, out of
> Nature. Natural disasters
> and the plenitude of
> Nature have these
> dimensions only to the
> extent they are imposed on
> or made available to
> different classes of
> people by the social system.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>
> On 28/01/2019 4:00 pm,
> Harshad Dave wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am working on one
> article. I want to
> know your views on
> following query.
>
> "Do we find
> Inequalities exists in
> wild life system?"
>
> Your views will help
> me in my work.
>
> Regards,
>
> Image removed by sender.
>
> Harshad Dave
>
> Email:hhdave15@gmail.com
> <mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>
>
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>
> Martin
>
> /"I may say that whenever I meet Mrs. Seligman or Dr.
> Lowie or discuss matters with Radcliffe-Brown or Kroeber,
> I become at once aware that my partner does not understand
> anything in the matter, and I end usually with the feeling
> that this also applies to myself” (Malinowski, 1930)/
>
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