[Xmca-l] Re: The Mindset.

Wed Aug 21 21:07:02 PDT 2019

Hello Derek (if I may),
Thanks for your message. I regret I could not respond it timely. I opened
the web links and visited the web there. I think it seems too far from the
subject matter in discussion, even if it has any link with the subject
matter, it is beyond my capacity to evaluate it reliably. I think, at this
stage, it is more convenient if we take examples of big animals in jungle.

with regards,

Harshad Dave

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 11:39 AM Derek Worley Patton <
derekpatton19@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Folks,
>
> As a child and family psychologist and once-was a marine biologist, I
> found a recent documentary fascinating about how, on some reefs, and in
> this case filmed and documented, an octopus and grouper co-operated to stay
> on either side of a coral complex (not very thick) and each would attempt
> to attack the hiding smaller fish. The octopus would send in tenticales and
> sometime the fish would be chased into the mouth of the waiting grouper.
> Sometimes the grouper would attack and the octopus caught the fish coming
> out the other side. There were not enough observations to get a ratio of
> who got more. But quite clearly boxing in the fish from two sides is a
> win-wait, wait-win strategy with more chance of success than a one-sided
> attack independently. There are other testimonies of this sort between
> species by marine biologists, but this was the most recent and best
> documented (although I don’t spend time chasing these up.)
>
> So...if this is true, then both species can change their parameters or
> mindsets (understanding?) about what another creature in their environment
> can and will do. It only works if both species can do this in a reasonable
> time with limited numbers of examples. Perchance once one of them benefits
> accidentally from the other presence. But two accidents close together?
> Each would have had to remember the previous incident long enough to
> predict the future (?) or consequences of hunting opposite the other hunter
> at the same time. Interestingly, neither tried to steal the captured prey
> from the other. So fish and octopus develop a sense of fair play,
> reciprocity, win some loose some? This is all to few incidents i would
> think to argue “shaping” behaviour like training chickens or rats to tap
> out patterns to obtain the reward drink or food in a cage.
>
> Interested as to what the rest of think.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/11/11/octopus-fish-join-forces-hunt-prey-filming-first-blue-planet/
>
>
>
> or
>
>
> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2013/04/24/groupers-use-gestures-to-recruit-morays-for-hunting-team-ups/
>
>
>
> cheers, derek
>
> drderek@strivetogather.com
>
> Honorary Fellow, University of Melbourne
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 18, 2019 5:47:48 PM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: The Mindset.
>
>
> Thanks for your help.
> I opened the link and read the information on it. The word *umwelt *is
> more towards biological and evolutionary links. Here my subject matter
> pertains to socio political economics. The prime target is as follow,
>
> The process of contracting a mindset is influenced by some prime
> parameters in our social system. Such parameters do not exist in the wild
> life system. If it is true, then, either animals never contract a mind set
> or if it is a fact that they also contract a mind set, then which
> parameters are responsible in wild life system for the same?
>
> I agree the matter is sticky and clumsy to determine.
>
>
> Harshad Dave
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 9:50 AM Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Umwelt is a term that has been used that might be close to what you
>> describe:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umwelt
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUmwelt&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc8e6542223484660350c08d7239fdec7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637017041850954579&sdata=T4ZhbarYfMo%2FBt9%2BHzH1g6gtCowLmGSQzYMcsc%2B685s%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> -greg
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 9:12 PM Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My question is if animals contract a mind set in wild life system.
>>>
>>>
>>> Harshad Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 10:12 PM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some people have voluntary control over their 'mindset'.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Huw
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 10:10, Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> You will agree that no man in this world is free from his mindset that
>>>>> he developed during the journey of his growth from childhood to his
>>>>> prevailing age. His mindset plays an influential role while he deals with
>>>>> outside world. Even if the person has competent abilities, his mindset may
>>>>> not permit the application of his appropriate abilities at right time and
>>>>> on event, as if it (mindset) is a filter put before application of
>>>>> abilities. Presently I am working on it and I need your help at one point.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Do animals have mindset or they are free from it?"
>>>>>
>>>>> with true regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Harshad Dave
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Anthropology
>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> Brigham Young University
>> Provo, UT 84602
>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgreg.a.thompson.byu.edu&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc8e6542223484660350c08d7239fdec7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637017041850964584&sdata=KJAnuDuS9ghRqYzB81xZ%2FeuTXmbEbBHPizlz%2Fmrjtr4%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbyu.academia.edu%2FGregoryThompson&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc8e6542223484660350c08d7239fdec7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637017041850974595&sdata=KuRQwBqiKiLZ8ShvpfH2ydCjku8RPVj%2BMJf7%2B8gDJts%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20190822/eb310ea9/attachment.html 