[Xmca-l] Re: The Mindset.

[Derek Worley Patton]

Dear Folks,
As a child and family psychologist and once-was a marine biologist, I found a recent documentary fascinating about how, on some reefs, and in this case filmed and documented, an octopus and grouper co-operated to stay on either side of a coral complex (not very thick) and each would attempt to attack the hiding smaller fish. The octopus would send in tenticales and sometime the fish would be chased into the mouth of the waiting grouper. Sometimes the grouper would attack and the octopus caught the fish coming out the other side. There were not enough observations to get a ratio of who got more. But quite clearly boxing in the fish from two sides is a win-wait, wait-win strategy with more chance of success than a one-sided attack independently. There are other testimonies of this sort between species by marine biologists, but this was the most recent and best documented (although I don’t spend time chasing these up.)
So...if this is true, then both species can change their parameters or mindsets (understanding?) about what another creature in their environment can and will do. It only works if both species can do this in a reasonable time with limited numbers of examples. Perchance once one of them benefits accidentally from the other presence. But two accidents close together? Each would have had to remember the previous incident long enough to predict the future (?) or consequences of hunting opposite the other hunter at the same time. Interestingly, neither tried to steal the captured prey from the other. So fish and octopus develop a sense of fair play, reciprocity, win some loose some? This is all to few incidents i would think to argue “shaping” behaviour like training chickens or rats to tap out patterns to obtain the reward drink or food in a cage.
Interested as to what the rest of think.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/11/11/octopus-fish-join-forces-hunt-prey-filming-first-blue-planet/

or
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2013/04/24/groupers-use-gestures-to-recruit-morays-for-hunting-team-ups/

cheers, derek
drderek@strivetogather.com<mailto:drderek@strivetogather.com>
Honorary Fellow, University of Melbourne

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________________________________
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 5:47:48 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Mindset.


Thanks for your help.
I opened the link and read the information on it. The word umwelt is more towards biological and evolutionary links. Here my subject matter pertains to socio political economics. The prime target is as follow,

The process of contracting a mindset is influenced by some prime parameters in our social system. Such parameters do not exist in the wild life system. If it is true, then, either animals never contract a mind set or if it is a fact that they also contract a mind set, then which parameters are responsible in wild life system for the same?

I agree the matter is sticky and clumsy to determine.


Harshad Dave


On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 9:50 AM Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com<mailto:greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>> wrote:
Umwelt is a term that has been used that might be close to what you describe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umwelt<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUmwelt&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc8e6542223484660350c08d7239fdec7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637017041850954579&sdata=T4ZhbarYfMo%2FBt9%2BHzH1g6gtCowLmGSQzYMcsc%2B685s%3D&reserved=0>

-greg

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 9:12 PM Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com<mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>> wrote:
My question is if animals contract a mind set in wild life system.


Harshad Dave


On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 10:12 PM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com<mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
Some people have voluntary control over their 'mindset'.

Best,
Huw

On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 10:10, Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com<mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,
You will agree that no man in this world is free from his mindset that he developed during the journey of his growth from childhood to his prevailing age. His mindset plays an influential role while he deals with outside world. Even if the person has competent abilities, his mindset may not permit the application of his appropriate abilities at right time and on event, as if it (mindset) is a filter put before application of abilities. Presently I am working on it and I need your help at one point.

"Do animals have mindset or they are free from it?"

with true regards,

Harshad Dave


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