[Xmca-l] Re: The Mindset.

Wed Aug 21 20:38:42 PDT 2019

Huw,

Thanks for your message dated 20 August. I put my reply in red/brownish
fonts.

Your words:

I have skimmed through your document. You might want to compare your
conception with Vygotsky's conception of a "zone of proximal development"
found in the volume thinking and speech, p.209 in the 1987 plenum press
edition, or the 170th page marked as page 208 in this pdf link:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/words/Thinking-and-Speech.pdf

My saying: I read it at the mentioned page (slightly before the page 208
starting from no. 4 on page 207). I have put my independent observation on
the above writings in a docs file that I shall attach with my message in
couple of days as it does not form a part of my saying. Vygotsky is talking
in particular topic issue and it is different though it impresses some
similarity at a glancing view. I confirm that subject matter/topic is
different from that of in our discussion.

Your words:

It might also be beneficial to distinguish, carefully, what is meant by a
skill or ability in the context of a circumstance where it is misapplied,
for example, to distinguish genuine understanding and construal
(appropriate orientation).

My prior points still stand in relation to my interpretation of your
questions and descriptions. [Noted]

My saying: You are right; I should give short introduction of my
understanding/concept about “ability”.

When we use the word ability it is a general addressing or it means overall
ability. In fact, it is more convenient if we segregate our ability in
various independent slots. For example, leopard’s ability to climb a tree
is more powerful than that of a lion. But, the muscle power of a lion is
higher in folds than that of a leopard. It means, if we talk about
comparison of ability between a lion and leopard, the slot of tree climbing
ability is higher but the slot of muscle power ability of a leopard is
lower than that of a lion. It is equally true for men also. The overall
ability of a man is constituted of different slots of particular abilities.
The potential of ability in each slot varies person to person. Person A
might get proved weak against person B, but, A is powerful in that
particular slot only. There is a fair possibility that B might be more
powerful than A in one or more other slots of abilities. There are
innumerable slots of various abilities in our overall ability.

[If you need to know further detail analysis of “ability” I request to open
the following link where I have presented the same in detail. Article
title: “Ability – The spine of economics”

Link: https://www.academia.edu/36050375/Ability_The_spine_of_economics ]

Your words:

Your binary predicate is "in a wild life system". What is a wild life
system and why is this necessary in the context of a developmental study?
Is an ant nest along with its recognised material needs, transported to a
laboratory, a "wild" system? Is a dolphin in a large pool? Is an octopus
with a camera? Is any creature with anything novel?

My saying: Once upon a time before hundreds of thousands of years, our
great ancestors were making living in a savage group living. A human
society evolved progressively and *the social system* was different than
that of *the wild life system*. The wild life system is a system run and
controlled by fully natural laws only. The use of phrase *wild life system*
is simple and I request you not to make it complicated unnecessarily. It is
used just to distinguish it from human social system.

If you need to go in detail separation between the two (*wild life system*
and *human social system*), I request you to refer on following web link:
http://armgpublishing.sumdu.edu.ua/journals/fmir/volume-2-issue-2/article-6/)
at page no. 70 to 74 (Fetus of Exchange Process).

Your words:

With respect to your binary question about whether animals do or do not
have a "mindset", this is predicated upon your definition. If your
definition is based upon intention, then the answer is yes. If your
definition isn't based upon intention, I would probably question your
conception more, i.e. the genesis of "mindset". It is necessary to realise
that this is a developmental (genetic) answer to your question.

My saying: Yes I agree with your saying as above. But, if you read my
message along with the file (I had attached) that clears/describes “what I
understand about the constitution of mindset”, I am specific on the issue.
My views on the constitution of “mindset” have a foundation of practical
observations of facts that we face/observe in the society around us.

If you recall your classmate of high school (Secondary school) you will
find some of them with splendid record of his student carrier. You will
also recall some students of last bench who were not with satisfactory
performance in the school carrier. But, if we trace out them at present,
many of them out of the *last bench dwellers* are with splendid
achievements in their post life after education/graduation and few of from
bright carrier are with moderate achievements. I have served in various
offices with different responsibilities. I came across and observed them
with different aspects and angles. I realized that they had many powerful
slots of abilities and genuine characteristics but they contracted or
suffered from typical mindset that never allow them to deal with other
people of his own department or from other department in a way that might
generate a positive, good or pleasant impact on the minds of the people
dealing with them. In other words, I say, their mindset did not permit
exposer of his various powerful abilities and characteristics while dealing
other people. In my views as I explained in a message to Annalie, mindset
is one type of scaling like layer that resist the exposer of person’s true
potential.

You have pointed out if my definition is based upon intention or not and
accordingly the reply to my question might be given. I clarify and explain
as follow,

I have narrated my views on the constitution of mindset in the attached
file. There, I have taken three influencing parameters (page 2) that
constitutes the mindset. However, I know there might be still more
parameters also, but, I believe, one cannot wait till he becomes master of
all before writing an article or presenting his views. When I was writing
on the above parameters…. Perhaps you might agree with me…. We constantly
face new thinking in our mind when we are busy in writing on some
issue/topics. Here also, at that time it came to my mind if animals face
such problem of development of mindset as they grow. If they face the same
then which might be the influencing parameters?..... and I put it on xmca-l.
There is no point of “intention”. I hope I have clarified.

with regards,

Harshad Dave.

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 6:29 PM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:

> Harshard,
>
> I have skimmed through your document. You might want to compare your
> conception with Vygotsky's conception of a "zone of proximal development"
> found in the volume thinking and speech, p.209 in the 1987 plenum press
> edition, or the 170th page marked as page 208 in this pdf link:
>
>
> https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/words/Thinking-and-Speech.pdf
>
> It might also be beneficial to distinguish, carefully, what is meant by a
> skill or ability in the context of a circumstance where it is misapplied,
> for example, to distinguish genuine understanding and construal
> (appropriate orientation).
>
> My prior points still stand in relation to my interpretation of your
> questions and descriptions.
>
> Your binary predicate is "in a wild life system". What is a wild life
> system and why is this necessary in the context of a developmental study?
> Is an ant nest along with its recognised material needs, transported to a
> laboratory, a "wild" system? Is a dolphin in a large pool? Is an octopus
> with a camera? Is any creature with anything novel?
>
> With respect to your binary question about whether animals do or do not
> have a "mindset", this is predicated upon your definition. If your
> definition is based upon intention, then the answer is yes. If your
> definition isn't based upon intention, I would probably question your
> conception more, i.e. the genesis of "mindset". It is necessary to realise
> that this is a developmental (genetic) answer to your question.
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
>
>
> On Sun, 18 Aug 2019 at 14:39, Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Huw,
>> I am sorry, perhaps I posted a reply to you by mistake that otherwise I
>> should have sent to Greg. Now I have corrected it and I regret for
>> inconvenience. Please refer the attached file I sent along with a message
>> to Annalie participating this discussion. If you do not get the access,
>> please communicate and I shall attach the same for you again.
>> I think, after going through the views on mindset of man in the above
>> subject file you will have clear idea what exactly I target in my question.
>> with regards,
>>
>>
>> Harshad Dave
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 10:44 AM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think more clarity is required in applying a binary predicate to a
>>> developmental context.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 18 Aug 2019 at 04:12, Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My question is if animals contract a mind set in wild life system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Harshad Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 10:12 PM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Some people have voluntary control over their 'mindset'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Huw
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 10:10, Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> You will agree that no man in this world is free from his mindset
>>>>>> that he developed during the journey of his growth from childhood to his
>>>>>> prevailing age. His mindset plays an influential role while he deals with
>>>>>> outside world. Even if the person has competent abilities, his mindset may
>>>>>> not permit the application of his appropriate abilities at right time and
>>>>>> on event, as if it (mindset) is a filter put before application of
>>>>>> abilities. Presently I am working on it and I need your help at one point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Do animals have mindset or they are free from it?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with true regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Harshad Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20190822/c876c41f/attachment.html 