[Xmca-l] Re: anachronism
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Mon Sep 17 17:34:10 PDT 2018
"Cultural gaffe" exists:
https://www.instyle.com/news/prince-william-cultural-gaffe-japan-china
so it appears that the concept exists, but a word for it is
not yet readily available.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 18/09/2018 2:47 AM, Annalisa Aguilar wrote:
>
> Hi Andy,
>
>
> "Gaffe" may very well be the word that you want, if you
> want a single word. A gaffe is a SOCIAL blunder. Rather
> than say "cultural faux pas" you could say "cultural
> gaffe" just as well. That you must put "cultural" in front
> of "faux pas" means "faux pas" doesn't do the job you
> intend, wouldn't you say?
>
>
> "Faux pas" literally means "false step" so if you want it
> to be English then say "false step," or "cultural false
> step." Still not quite effective, is it.
>
>
> Also, what you've brought up pertains to a point of view.
> Do you mean to look from the cultural standpoint of those
> who are offended? or from those who offend? Or from a more
> neutral standpoint?
>
>
> Also, "solecism" doesn't mean "un-cultured". One of the
> definitions is a mistake in the context of etiquette.
> Etiquette is a cultural construct. Solecism means an error
> but a particular kind of error. It seems to be what you
> are talking about. It just doesn't refer to "culture" in
> the way that you want, perhaps because "etiquette" is the
> defining concept standing between "solecism" and "culture."
>
>
> "Etiquette" has a color of class and has to do with
> manners, and I suppose that anthropologists don't breezily
> throw around the word "etiquette" when analyzing their own
> gaffes while studying a culture in the field. Or maybe
> they do?
>
>
> I'm not sure why you would be against the use of "solecism."
>
>
> (I might point out that "etiquette" is also a French word,
> and French has been called the language of diplomacy,
> maybe this is an indication why. Those French, why have a
> word for everything!!!)
>
>
> Additionally, as seen here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solecism
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solecism>
>
> there is a beneficial aspect to this word because it is
> also used in terms of grammar, from where it derives from
> the Greek. I support the word because what you are talking
> about is "cultural grammar" and what do you call it when
> someone pushes an incorrect usage into a cultural context.
> Seems descriptive and less loaded.
>
>
> It's more likely that we are just not used to using such a
> word, because if we live in a hegemonic culture and we are
> not in a minority, we are comfortable making solecisms
> with impunity and never have to give pause for
> self-reflection when we have made a gaffe.
>
>
> I actually like the word "gaffe," because it is also
> neutral and sounds more like an everyday word; it is
> accessible, as in "Who hasn't ever made a gaffe?" rather
> than "Who hasn't ever made a solecism?"
>
>
> I'd suggest "solecism" as the scientific counterpart to an
> everyday "gaffe."
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Annalisa
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Andy
> Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 17, 2018 3:48:45 AM
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: anachronism
>
>
> Yes, that's right, Huw, so "solecism" and "wild" mean
> "un-cultured," not "other-cultured." Of course, the
> unsophisticated native easily mistakes the other-cultured
> as being un-cultured.
>
> "Cultural faux pas" actually carries the implication that
> the relevant act belongs to another culture. So it is the
> right term, except it requires 3 words, two of them
> French, so it is in a sense itself a cultural faux pas.
> But non-self-referential words are a problem.
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> On 17/09/2018 7:41 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>> Andy,
>>
>> I think you mean "from a different culture" rather than
>> "out(side) of a culture". So anachronism refer in this
>> context to an utterance that is from a different time
>> (and culture) applied to the contemporary. So I think the
>> sense that you are looking for is "projection", or
>> "cultural projection".
>>
>> Huw
>>
>> On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 at 06:33, Andy Blunden
>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I mean it in the sense Boas meant when he first
>> used it in the plural - "cultures".
>>
>> I liked Helena's observation, of all the words we
>> have for people who don't belong to the relevant
>> culture, but I mean a word to describe ideas, claims,
>> beliefs which are "blind" to the incongruity of the
>> idea with the relevant cultural context. This is
>> often a kind of anachronism, but not always. The lack
>> of a word arose in a controversy here in Oz when US
>> cultural norms were used to judge an action in an Oz
>> cultural context. ... That drew my attention to the
>> lack of a word, but I don't want to discuss the issue
>> itself on this list.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 16/09/2018 3:21 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>>> Andy,
>>> Yes, it might depend on what you mean by "culture".
>>> No need to get into the battles over the word as
>>> anthropology has over the past 30 years but it would
>>> be worth knowing what you mean.
>>>
>>> For example, David's reference to Vygotsky's very
>>> fashionable (yes, at that time...) term "primitive"
>>> relies on a rather old fashioned meaning of culture
>>> as "refinement" and "development." Thus E. B.
>>> Tylor's title Primitive Culture was anachronistic
>>> (in the sense of an idea before its time) because,
>>> on this common understanding of these terms,
>>> "primitive culture" was an oxymoron.
>>>
>>> I assume that you mean culture in the sense that
>>> anthropologists use it today (or, I should say, as
>>> they used to use it not so long ago). Is that right?
>>>
>>> -greg
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 8:40 PM Andy Blunden
>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Everyone knows what "anachronism" means. "Out of
>>> time" so to speak.
>>>
>>> Is there a word for "out of culture"?
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Department of Anthropology
>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>> Brigham Young University
>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>>> <http://greg.a.thompson.byu.edu>
>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>
>
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