[Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started SOCIOLOGY | PSYCHOLOGY
Wolff-Michael Roth
wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com
Sun Jun 11 05:19:42 PDT 2017
Hi Andy, I don't follow you. I don't denounce but raise a question; and I
point to the literature where the link between individual and collective
emotion is done. And I do not see where there is a declaration, unless you
mean the index to the literature. Michael
Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Applied Cognitive Science
MacLaurin Building A567
University of Victoria
Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>
New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
<https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>*
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> Declarations are cheap, Michael. Denunciations of dichotomy are a
> dime-a-dozen. The point is: how is it done?
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> On 11/06/2017 2:15 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote:
>
>> Does Vygotsky not move beyond the dichotomy sociology | psychology when
>> he acknowledges ("Concrete Human Psychology") that "any higher
>> psychological function was a social relation" and "personality: the
>> ensemble of societal relations"?
>>
>> On emotions you might find interesting the work of Randall Collins,
>> "Interaction ritual chains", which acknowledges the constitutive relation
>> between individual and collective emotions
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------------
>> Applied Cognitive Science
>> MacLaurin Building A567
>> University of Victoria
>> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
>> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>
>>
>> New book: */The Mathematics of Mathematics <https://www.sensepublishers.c
>> om/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-sci
>> ence-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>/*
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> In advancing this thread exploring sociology/psychology and
>> their connections, Andy
>> explores how these connections can be thought about
>> within a single science or theory. This opens up the
>> question of multiple approaches to how we relate
>> sociology and psychology within differing sciences
>> using uniting frames.
>>
>> Greg introduces the book (Affective Circuits) which is
>> attempting to move beyond the concept of the nation
>> state and the sending/receiving polarity of
>> ‘methodological nationalism’
>> The difficulty becomes this focusing on multitudes of
>> understanding (multiple cultural, economic and
>> political contexts – simultaneously unfolding).
>> Then holding this multitude while considering kinship
>> and intimate relations.
>> The intent of this book to open up new ways of
>> thinking about migration in which the search for
>> marriage or ties to kin can sometimes re-place the
>> search for work.
>> The focus of the book exploring the way EVOKING
>> powerful emotions regulate and disrupt ‘affective
>> circuits’.
>>
>> Definition of Affective Circuits:
>> The social formations that emerge from the sending,
>> withholding and receiving of goods, ideas, bodies, and
>> emotions.
>> These social formations being multitudes that occur
>> simultaneously.
>>
>> Alfredo, emotions and infrastructure operating across
>> multiple LATERAL sites or contexts seems to be a
>> complex question.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Andy Blunden
>> Sent: June 9, 2017 7:50 PM
>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>> SOCIOLOGY | PSYCHOLOGY
>>
>> Er. "not do any research on the dynamics of the
>> institutions
>> of formal education (for example) by by"
>> should be "do research on the dynamics of the institutions
>> of formal education (for example) by"
>>
>> Sorry,
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>>
>> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
>> decision-making>
>>
>> On 10/06/2017 12:03 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>> > Alfredo, in every science there are specialisms
>> which are
>> > necessarily pursued in relatively independent research
>> > communities, despite being part of the same science.
>> What
>> > makes all these specialisms parts of the one science is
>> > the use of concepts which are shared across the whole
>> > science and are necessarily connected in the
>> constitution
>> > of the science. CHAT is such a science; its basic
>> concepts
>> > such as artefact-mediated actions and activities are
>> basic
>> > to both psychology and social theory as we approach it.
>> > Therefore the educational psychologist may *not* do *any
>> > *research on the dynamics of the institutions of formal
>> > education (for example) by *by *dint of the fact
>> > "activity" is a shared concept, discoveries from one
>> > research field can enter the research in the other, and
>> > from time to time problems in educational psychology
>> will
>> > find their solution in the social theory of formal
>> > educational institutions, and vice versa.
>> >
>> > Andy
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Andy Blunden
>> > http://home.mira.net/~andy
>> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>> >
>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>>
>> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
>> decision-making>
>> >
>> > On 10/06/2017 5:11 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>> >> I had to make a pause in my contributing to the
>> >> discussion, as we (my family) are these days relocating
>> >> from Victoria to Europe (in Spain at the moment). But I
>> >> have kept wondering (and wandering) around the topic
>> >> that came up in Yasuko Kawatoko's article concerning
>> >> emotion and infrastructure, and then about ANT and
>> CHAT.
>> >> And so I was thinking that the question relates to that
>> >> of the connection between sociology and psychology,
>> does
>> >> not it? For is there the possibility of a psychology
>> >> without a sociology in either ANT or CHAT?
>> >>
>> >> To travel from Victoria to Alicante, we (2 adults and a
>> >> 7-year and a 2-year) had to take a drive (a friend
>> drove
>> >> us) from (no longer) home to the airport, then, after a
>> >> number of procedures at the airport, got into a
>> plain to
>> >> fly Victoria - Calgary; then Calgary - Amsterdam; then
>> >> Amsterdam - Madrid, then a taxi that would drive us
>> to a
>> >> high-speed train to Alicante. Then a (family) drive
>> from
>> >> Alicante to a small town in the province of Valencia.
>> >> That's an infrastructure. And that's a lot of affect
>> >> generated. I could not help but to think on the
>> relation
>> >> between infrastructure and emotion all the way...
>> >>
>> >> Alfredo
>> >> ________________________________________
>> >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> >> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of
>> Larry
>> >> Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
>>
>> >> Sent: 02 June 2017 07:05
>> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>> >>
>> >> Michael, to pick up this thread:
>> >> “ The important part of the quotation is this: "*the
>> >> methods* in
>> >> and through which members concertedly produce and
>> >> assemble," and these
>> >> include making the very production and assembly
>> available
>> >> to each other.
>> >>
>> >> In particular the phrase:
>> >>
>> >> “in and through which” the methods are assembled
>> [arranged].
>> >>
>> >> Here is the way that Kenneth Liberman makes a similar
>> >> observation within a note # 1
>> >>
>> >> 1 The phrase ‘‘in and as of’’ intends to retain the
>> >> actual state of affairs of a social practice.
>> Instead of
>> >> conceiving of a metaphysical object, ‘‘science,’’ which
>> >> ‘‘has’’ certain practices, a science consists of its
>> >> practices. It does not exist apart from them; in fact,
>> >> the task of any inquiry into the lebenswelt origins of
>> >> sciences takes its departure from this recognition. A
>> >> science is nothing more than, and nothing less
>> than, the
>> >> activities of its practitioners. The phrase promises to
>> >> retain the important insight, which is consistent with
>> >> Husserl’s own phenomenological discoveries, that a
>> >> science does not merely exist in its practices, it
>> exists
>> >> as its practices. The perspective is vital to an
>> >> anti-essentialist inquiry, and the phrase is employed
>> >> frequently in ethnomethodology (cf. Garfinkel, 2002, p.
>> >> 92, 99, 138, 207, 211, 246, 247; Garfinkel and Wieder,
>> >> 1992, p. 175).
>> >>
>> >> So the two phrases
>> >> “in and through which” & “in and as of” are
>> indicating a
>> >> way of making visible a work or a method or a
>> discipline
>> >> AS practices.
>> >>
>> >> For further elaboration here reproduced a full
>> page of
>> >> the article written by Kenneth Liberman where note
>> #1 is
>> >> generated: This page may be taking us off topic or it
>> >> may be relevant?? This page is bringing in another
>> >> approach exploring the origins of ethno “methods”.
>> >>
>> >> “ While Husserl provided the direction for our
>> >> ethnomethodological investigations, the lived work of
>> >> various sciences––in their coherent, work-site specific
>> >> organizational Things-in-distinctive-details, case by
>> >> case for the particular sciences––are obscured by
>> >> Husserl’s use of formal generalities in both The
>> >> Gottingen Lectures and The Crisis. Regrettably, and
>> as a
>> >> certainty, both of Husserl’s treatises lose the
>> >> phenomenon they were written carefully to describe.
>> That
>> >> is, they lose the phenomenon of the actual
>> work-sites of
>> >> any science. And there they also lose the instructed
>> >> actions of the scientists, i.e. their actual
>> >> world-generating collaborations. They lose the
>> phenomenon
>> >> by losing just-how their instructed actions are
>> >> administered to reveal for the scientists their
>> work, as
>> >> well as the objects they are studying. In Husserl’s
>> >> program, the lebenswelt origins, being only formally
>> >> exhibited by the lectures, do not actually describe any
>> >> lebenswelt practices.
>> >> They do not exhibit lebenswelt practices with
>> >> lived-in-the-course instructed actions. They merely
>> >> allude to lebenswelt practices. The real achievement of
>> >> Husserl’s program, then, is that the actual lived
>> work of
>> >> sciences are alluded to as lived practices. And that is
>> >> no small achievement. The Gottingen Lectures and The
>> >> Crisis assert the promises of Husserl’s monumental
>> >> program. Their incongruous anomaly is that their
>> promise
>> >> was neither noticed nor recognized by bench
>> practitioners
>> >> of any science. The program of The Crisis was never
>> taken
>> >> up by scientists, nor was it welcomed as filling a
>> ‘‘gap’’
>> >> in the coherence of a particular science, in and as of
>> >> its discovered topics and practices.1 Nevertheless,
>> >> despite the fact that scientists rarely welcomed
>> >> Husserl’s inquiries, in epistemological philosophy the
>> >> program remains venerated as Husserl’s achievement. Yet
>> >> even there Husserl’s program has not been taken up in a
>> >> radical way, as the familiar haecceities2 o
>> >> f an actual science. It has only been used to
>> >> illustrate cases for ep
>> >> istemological arguments about the sciences. Hence, the
>> >> task of taking up Husserl’s program seriously remains.
>> >> This is not to say that no ground has been gained. Very
>> >> little in The Gottingen Lectures redescribes the lived
>> >> work of any actual science. On the contrary, the
>> lectures
>> >> forcefully point to the absence of haecceities in
>> any and
>> >> every particular science. These absent details can
>> >> involve the shop talk, local gestural organization, the
>> >> local endogenous practices of social order
>> production and
>> >> accountability, and their coherent substantive
>> material,
>> >> which might include board notes, personal notebooks,
>> >> diaries, diagrams, scribblings, books, ....”
>> >>
>> >> The theme here is the shift from a theory being
>> >> “formally exhibited” within disciplinary methods to
>> >> re-mark what was previously formally exhibited to
>> become
>> >> a method of describing lebenswelt practices. [ethno
>> >> practices].
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>> >>
>> >> From: Wolff-Michael Roth
>> >> Sent: June 1, 2017 5:48 PM
>> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>> >>
>> >> Thanks Martin,
>> >>
>> >> I do not view what I am saying--though it is
>> differently
>> >> said---from what
>> >> you quote. The important part of the quotation is this:
>> >> "*the methods* in
>> >> and through which members concertedly produce and
>> >> assemble," and these
>> >> include making the very production and assembly
>> available
>> >> to each other. In
>> >> all of this, some things are unquestioned, and
>> Garfinkel
>> >> wrote considerably
>> >> on the invisible background assumption . . .
>> >>
>> >> Michael
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------------
>> >>
>> >> Applied Cognitive Science
>> >> MacLaurin Building A567
>> >> University of Victoria
>> >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
>> >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://web.uvic.ca/%7Emroth>
>> >> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/
>> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>>
>> >>
>> >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
>> >>
>> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-dir
>> ections-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics
>> -of-mathematics/
>> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-dir
>> ections-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics
>> -of-mathematics/>>*
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Martin John Packer
>> >> <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
>> <mailto:mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>>
>>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi Wolff-Michael,
>> >>>
>> >>> I agree with most of what you’ve written, but not the
>> >>> suggestion that EM
>> >>> starts from the assumption that people (simply) make
>> >>> visible order that has
>> >>> its origins somewhere else. I’ll quote from an
>> >>> encyclopedia article by Doug
>> >>> Maynard and Teddy Kardash:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Ethnomethodology is an area in sociology
>> originating in
>> >>> the work of Harold
>> >>> Garfinkel. It represents an effort to study the
>> methods
>> >>> in and through
>> >>> which members concertedly produce and assemble the
>> >>> features of everyday
>> >>> life in any actual, concrete, and not hypothetical or
>> >>> theoretically
>> >>> depicted setting…. Members of society achieve this
>> >>> intelligible
>> >>> organization through actual, coordinated, concerted,
>> >>> procedural behaviors
>> >>> or methods and practices.
>> >>>
>> >>> Martin
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jun 1, 2017, at 7:27 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth <
>> >>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com
>> <mailto:wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com><mailto:wolffmichael.
>> roth@gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com>>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Martin,
>> >>> I would have thought that ethno*methodology* is the
>> >>> study of the methods,
>> >>> the work, people use to make social orders visible. In
>> >>> this, it is very
>> >>> different from all other research, qualitative and
>> >>> quantitative. Garfinkel
>> >>> describes it as *incommensurably different *from,
>> among
>> >>> others,
>> >>> interpretive studies of social life. He
>> distinguishes EM
>> >>> from formal
>> >>> analytic studies, all those that have to specify
>> methods
>> >>> because these
>> >>> methods are different from the methods people use in
>> >>> everyday life. EM does
>> >>> not dispute the results of other research; its
>> interests
>> >>> are completely
>> >>> elsewhere.
>> >>> Practically, EM is interested in change if it is what
>> >>> people do; it is not
>> >>> interested in the change but how people do make change
>> >>> and the required
>> >>> work visible to each other.
>> >>> Michael
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>
>> >>> --------------------
>> >>> Applied Cognitive Science
>> >>> MacLaurin Building A567
>> >>> University of Victoria
>> >>> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
>> >>> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth
>> <http://web.uvic.ca/%7Emroth>
>> >>> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/
>> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>>
>> >>>
>> >>> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
>> >>>
>> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-
>> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new->
>> >>> directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-
>> >>> mathematics-of-mathematics/>*
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil
>> >>> <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>> >>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Larry, I also was thinking that visibility, in other
>> >>> EM/CA studies also as
>> >>> instructability, speaks to change. A
>> >>> ________________________________________
>> >>> From:
>> >>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
>> >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>> >>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
>> >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>> >>> on behalf of Larry Purss
>> >>> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com><mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>> >>> Sent: 02 June 2017 01:44
>> >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>> >>>
>> >>> Martin,
>> >>> This sentence,
>> >>> “Creating and sustaining order always requires change”
>> >>> And therefore makes visible change as the norm
>> >>> Seems to be pregnant with an evocative enacting of
>> >>> possibility for novel
>> >>> kinds of social fabric[continuing with the weaving
>> theme]
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
>> >>> Sent: June 1, 2017 4:18 PM
>> >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, I agree with what you say. I guess I used the
>> word
>> >>> change where I
>> >>> meant development. So I am going to change my
>> question:
>> >>>
>> >>> What do and could do researchers concerned with
>> >>> development (social,
>> >>> personal) with EM.
>> >>>
>> >>> You recently shared with us a beautiful book on the
>> >>> topic of development.
>> >>> How does EM feature in it?
>> >>> Alfredo
>> >>> ________________________________________
>> >>> From:
>> >>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
>> >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>> >>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
>> >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>> >>> on behalf of Martin John Packer
>> >>> <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
>> <mailto:mpacker@uniandes.edu.co><mailto:
>> >>> mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
>> <mailto:mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>>>
>> >>> Sent: 02 June 2017 00:40
>> >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Alfredo,
>> >>>
>> >>> I’ve always thought that EM deals very well with
>> change,
>> >>> because it does
>> >>> not treat stasis as the norm. EM is the study of the
>> >>> methods that people
>> >>> (actants) employ to create and sustain order, various
>> >>> kinds of order.
>> >>> Creating and sustaining order always requires change.
>> >>>
>> >>> Martin
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jun 1, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil
>> >>> <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>> >>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
>> >>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I personally find ethnomethodology EM fascinating
>> and a
>> >>> powerful approach
>> >>> to stick the realities of social life; but I always
>> >>> wondered what does EM
>> >>> do with questions of change.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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