[Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started SOCIOLOGY | PSYCHOLOGY
Andy Blunden
ablunden@mira.net
Sat Jun 10 21:49:27 PDT 2017
Declarations are cheap, Michael. Denunciations of dichotomy
are a dime-a-dozen. The point is: how is it done?
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://home.mira.net/~andy
http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
On 11/06/2017 2:15 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote:
> Does Vygotsky not move beyond the dichotomy sociology |
> psychology when he acknowledges ("Concrete Human
> Psychology") that "any higher psychological function was a
> social relation" and "personality: the ensemble of
> societal relations"?
>
> On emotions you might find interesting the work of Randall
> Collins, "Interaction ritual chains", which acknowledges
> the constitutive relation between individual and
> collective emotions
>
> Michael
>
>
> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Applied Cognitive Science
> MacLaurin Building A567
> University of Victoria
> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth
> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>
>
> New book: */The Mathematics of Mathematics
> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>/*
>
> On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Larry Purss
> <lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> In advancing this thread exploring
> sociology/psychology and their connections, Andy
> explores how these connections can be thought about
> within a single science or theory. This opens up the
> question of multiple approaches to how we relate
> sociology and psychology within differing sciences
> using uniting frames.
>
> Greg introduces the book (Affective Circuits) which is
> attempting to move beyond the concept of the nation
> state and the sending/receiving polarity of
> ‘methodological nationalism’
> The difficulty becomes this focusing on multitudes of
> understanding (multiple cultural, economic and
> political contexts – simultaneously unfolding).
> Then holding this multitude while considering kinship
> and intimate relations.
> The intent of this book to open up new ways of
> thinking about migration in which the search for
> marriage or ties to kin can sometimes re-place the
> search for work.
> The focus of the book exploring the way EVOKING
> powerful emotions regulate and disrupt ‘affective
> circuits’.
>
> Definition of Affective Circuits:
> The social formations that emerge from the sending,
> withholding and receiving of goods, ideas, bodies, and
> emotions.
> These social formations being multitudes that occur
> simultaneously.
>
> Alfredo, emotions and infrastructure operating across
> multiple LATERAL sites or contexts seems to be a
> complex question.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Andy Blunden
> Sent: June 9, 2017 7:50 PM
> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
> SOCIOLOGY | PSYCHOLOGY
>
> Er. "not do any research on the dynamics of the
> institutions
> of formal education (for example) by by"
> should be "do research on the dynamics of the institutions
> of formal education (for example) by"
>
> Sorry,
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>
> On 10/06/2017 12:03 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> > Alfredo, in every science there are specialisms
> which are
> > necessarily pursued in relatively independent research
> > communities, despite being part of the same science.
> What
> > makes all these specialisms parts of the one science is
> > the use of concepts which are shared across the whole
> > science and are necessarily connected in the
> constitution
> > of the science. CHAT is such a science; its basic
> concepts
> > such as artefact-mediated actions and activities are
> basic
> > to both psychology and social theory as we approach it.
> > Therefore the educational psychologist may *not* do *any
> > *research on the dynamics of the institutions of formal
> > education (for example) by *by *dint of the fact
> > "activity" is a shared concept, discoveries from one
> > research field can enter the research in the other, and
> > from time to time problems in educational psychology
> will
> > find their solution in the social theory of formal
> > educational institutions, and vice versa.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Andy Blunden
> > http://home.mira.net/~andy
> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> >
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
> >
> > On 10/06/2017 5:11 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
> >> I had to make a pause in my contributing to the
> >> discussion, as we (my family) are these days relocating
> >> from Victoria to Europe (in Spain at the moment). But I
> >> have kept wondering (and wandering) around the topic
> >> that came up in Yasuko Kawatoko's article concerning
> >> emotion and infrastructure, and then about ANT and
> CHAT.
> >> And so I was thinking that the question relates to that
> >> of the connection between sociology and psychology,
> does
> >> not it? For is there the possibility of a psychology
> >> without a sociology in either ANT or CHAT?
> >>
> >> To travel from Victoria to Alicante, we (2 adults and a
> >> 7-year and a 2-year) had to take a drive (a friend
> drove
> >> us) from (no longer) home to the airport, then, after a
> >> number of procedures at the airport, got into a
> plain to
> >> fly Victoria - Calgary; then Calgary - Amsterdam; then
> >> Amsterdam - Madrid, then a taxi that would drive us
> to a
> >> high-speed train to Alicante. Then a (family) drive
> from
> >> Alicante to a small town in the province of Valencia.
> >> That's an infrastructure. And that's a lot of affect
> >> generated. I could not help but to think on the
> relation
> >> between infrastructure and emotion all the way...
> >>
> >> Alfredo
> >> ________________________________________
> >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> >> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of
> Larry
> >> Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
> >> Sent: 02 June 2017 07:05
> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
> >>
> >> Michael, to pick up this thread:
> >> “ The important part of the quotation is this: "*the
> >> methods* in
> >> and through which members concertedly produce and
> >> assemble," and these
> >> include making the very production and assembly
> available
> >> to each other.
> >>
> >> In particular the phrase:
> >>
> >> “in and through which” the methods are assembled
> [arranged].
> >>
> >> Here is the way that Kenneth Liberman makes a similar
> >> observation within a note # 1
> >>
> >> 1 The phrase ‘‘in and as of’’ intends to retain the
> >> actual state of affairs of a social practice.
> Instead of
> >> conceiving of a metaphysical object, ‘‘science,’’ which
> >> ‘‘has’’ certain practices, a science consists of its
> >> practices. It does not exist apart from them; in fact,
> >> the task of any inquiry into the lebenswelt origins of
> >> sciences takes its departure from this recognition. A
> >> science is nothing more than, and nothing less
> than, the
> >> activities of its practitioners. The phrase promises to
> >> retain the important insight, which is consistent with
> >> Husserl’s own phenomenological discoveries, that a
> >> science does not merely exist in its practices, it
> exists
> >> as its practices. The perspective is vital to an
> >> anti-essentialist inquiry, and the phrase is employed
> >> frequently in ethnomethodology (cf. Garfinkel, 2002, p.
> >> 92, 99, 138, 207, 211, 246, 247; Garfinkel and Wieder,
> >> 1992, p. 175).
> >>
> >> So the two phrases
> >> “in and through which” & “in and as of” are
> indicating a
> >> way of making visible a work or a method or a
> discipline
> >> AS practices.
> >>
> >> For further elaboration here reproduced a full
> page of
> >> the article written by Kenneth Liberman where note
> #1 is
> >> generated: This page may be taking us off topic or it
> >> may be relevant?? This page is bringing in another
> >> approach exploring the origins of ethno “methods”.
> >>
> >> “ While Husserl provided the direction for our
> >> ethnomethodological investigations, the lived work of
> >> various sciences––in their coherent, work-site specific
> >> organizational Things-in-distinctive-details, case by
> >> case for the particular sciences––are obscured by
> >> Husserl’s use of formal generalities in both The
> >> Gottingen Lectures and The Crisis. Regrettably, and
> as a
> >> certainty, both of Husserl’s treatises lose the
> >> phenomenon they were written carefully to describe.
> That
> >> is, they lose the phenomenon of the actual
> work-sites of
> >> any science. And there they also lose the instructed
> >> actions of the scientists, i.e. their actual
> >> world-generating collaborations. They lose the
> phenomenon
> >> by losing just-how their instructed actions are
> >> administered to reveal for the scientists their
> work, as
> >> well as the objects they are studying. In Husserl’s
> >> program, the lebenswelt origins, being only formally
> >> exhibited by the lectures, do not actually describe any
> >> lebenswelt practices.
> >> They do not exhibit lebenswelt practices with
> >> lived-in-the-course instructed actions. They merely
> >> allude to lebenswelt practices. The real achievement of
> >> Husserl’s program, then, is that the actual lived
> work of
> >> sciences are alluded to as lived practices. And that is
> >> no small achievement. The Gottingen Lectures and The
> >> Crisis assert the promises of Husserl’s monumental
> >> program. Their incongruous anomaly is that their
> promise
> >> was neither noticed nor recognized by bench
> practitioners
> >> of any science. The program of The Crisis was never
> taken
> >> up by scientists, nor was it welcomed as filling a
> ‘‘gap’’
> >> in the coherence of a particular science, in and as of
> >> its discovered topics and practices.1 Nevertheless,
> >> despite the fact that scientists rarely welcomed
> >> Husserl’s inquiries, in epistemological philosophy the
> >> program remains venerated as Husserl’s achievement. Yet
> >> even there Husserl’s program has not been taken up in a
> >> radical way, as the familiar haecceities2 o
> >> f an actual science. It has only been used to
> >> illustrate cases for ep
> >> istemological arguments about the sciences. Hence, the
> >> task of taking up Husserl’s program seriously remains.
> >> This is not to say that no ground has been gained. Very
> >> little in The Gottingen Lectures redescribes the lived
> >> work of any actual science. On the contrary, the
> lectures
> >> forcefully point to the absence of haecceities in
> any and
> >> every particular science. These absent details can
> >> involve the shop talk, local gestural organization, the
> >> local endogenous practices of social order
> production and
> >> accountability, and their coherent substantive
> material,
> >> which might include board notes, personal notebooks,
> >> diaries, diagrams, scribblings, books, ....”
> >>
> >> The theme here is the shift from a theory being
> >> “formally exhibited” within disciplinary methods to
> >> re-mark what was previously formally exhibited to
> become
> >> a method of describing lebenswelt practices. [ethno
> >> practices].
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >>
> >> From: Wolff-Michael Roth
> >> Sent: June 1, 2017 5:48 PM
> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
> >>
> >> Thanks Martin,
> >>
> >> I do not view what I am saying--though it is
> differently
> >> said---from what
> >> you quote. The important part of the quotation is this:
> >> "*the methods* in
> >> and through which members concertedly produce and
> >> assemble," and these
> >> include making the very production and assembly
> available
> >> to each other. In
> >> all of this, some things are unquestioned, and
> Garfinkel
> >> wrote considerably
> >> on the invisible background assumption . . .
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
> >>
> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Applied Cognitive Science
> >> MacLaurin Building A567
> >> University of Victoria
> >> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
> >> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://web.uvic.ca/%7Emroth>
> >> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/
> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>>
> >>
> >> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
> >>
> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/
> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>>*
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Martin John Packer
> >> <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
> <mailto:mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Wolff-Michael,
> >>>
> >>> I agree with most of what you’ve written, but not the
> >>> suggestion that EM
> >>> starts from the assumption that people (simply) make
> >>> visible order that has
> >>> its origins somewhere else. I’ll quote from an
> >>> encyclopedia article by Doug
> >>> Maynard and Teddy Kardash:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ethnomethodology is an area in sociology
> originating in
> >>> the work of Harold
> >>> Garfinkel. It represents an effort to study the
> methods
> >>> in and through
> >>> which members concertedly produce and assemble the
> >>> features of everyday
> >>> life in any actual, concrete, and not hypothetical or
> >>> theoretically
> >>> depicted setting…. Members of society achieve this
> >>> intelligible
> >>> organization through actual, coordinated, concerted,
> >>> procedural behaviors
> >>> or methods and practices.
> >>>
> >>> Martin
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 1, 2017, at 7:27 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth <
> >>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com
> <mailto:wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com><mailto:wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com
> <mailto:wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com>>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Martin,
> >>> I would have thought that ethno*methodology* is the
> >>> study of the methods,
> >>> the work, people use to make social orders visible. In
> >>> this, it is very
> >>> different from all other research, qualitative and
> >>> quantitative. Garfinkel
> >>> describes it as *incommensurably different *from,
> among
> >>> others,
> >>> interpretive studies of social life. He
> distinguishes EM
> >>> from formal
> >>> analytic studies, all those that have to specify
> methods
> >>> because these
> >>> methods are different from the methods people use in
> >>> everyday life. EM does
> >>> not dispute the results of other research; its
> interests
> >>> are completely
> >>> elsewhere.
> >>> Practically, EM is interested in change if it is what
> >>> people do; it is not
> >>> interested in the change but how people do make change
> >>> and the required
> >>> work visible to each other.
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
> >>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> --------------------
> >>> Applied Cognitive Science
> >>> MacLaurin Building A567
> >>> University of Victoria
> >>> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
> >>> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth
> <http://web.uvic.ca/%7Emroth>
> >>> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/
> <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>>
> >>>
> >>> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
> >>>
> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-
> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new->
> >>> directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-
> >>> mathematics-of-mathematics/>*
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil
> >>> <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> >>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Larry, I also was thinking that visibility, in other
> >>> EM/CA studies also as
> >>> instructability, speaks to change. A
> >>> ________________________________________
> >>> From:
> >>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
> >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> >>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
> >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
> >>> on behalf of Larry Purss
> >>> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com><mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> >>> Sent: 02 June 2017 01:44
> >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
> >>>
> >>> Martin,
> >>> This sentence,
> >>> “Creating and sustaining order always requires change”
> >>> And therefore makes visible change as the norm
> >>> Seems to be pregnant with an evocative enacting of
> >>> possibility for novel
> >>> kinds of social fabric[continuing with the weaving
> theme]
> >>>
> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >>>
> >>> From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
> >>> Sent: June 1, 2017 4:18 PM
> >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I agree with what you say. I guess I used the
> word
> >>> change where I
> >>> meant development. So I am going to change my
> question:
> >>>
> >>> What do and could do researchers concerned with
> >>> development (social,
> >>> personal) with EM.
> >>>
> >>> You recently shared with us a beautiful book on the
> >>> topic of development.
> >>> How does EM feature in it?
> >>> Alfredo
> >>> ________________________________________
> >>> From:
> >>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
> >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> >>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
> >>> mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
> >>> on behalf of Martin John Packer
> >>> <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
> <mailto:mpacker@uniandes.edu.co><mailto:
> >>> mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
> <mailto:mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>>>
> >>> Sent: 02 June 2017 00:40
> >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca new discussion started
> >>>
> >>> Hi Alfredo,
> >>>
> >>> I’ve always thought that EM deals very well with
> change,
> >>> because it does
> >>> not treat stasis as the norm. EM is the study of the
> >>> methods that people
> >>> (actants) employ to create and sustain order, various
> >>> kinds of order.
> >>> Creating and sustaining order always requires change.
> >>>
> >>> Martin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 1, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil
> >>> <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> >>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
> >>> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I personally find ethnomethodology EM fascinating
> and a
> >>> powerful approach
> >>> to stick the realities of social life; but I always
> >>> wondered what does EM
> >>> do with questions of change.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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