[Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie of perezhivanie

Mon Dec 18 16:43:44 PST 2017

Mike--

The "rudimentary mental life" that is largely affective and based in the
midbrain is the (transitional) central neoformation of birth, and it lives
on as the affect in affective perception. One of the rare moments he finds
himself in agreement with Stern:

"W. Stern assumes that in the newborn, together with reflexes, there must
be the first traces of consciousness that develop very soon into an
impressive and many sided mental life. Of course, we can speak only of the
rudimentary state of mental life of the newborn from which we must exclude
all strictly intellectual and volitional phenomena of consciousness. There
are neither innate ideas nor actual perceptions, that is, comprehension of
external objects and processes as such, nor, finally, conscious desire or
striving. The only thing that we can assume on a sure basis is an
indistinct, unclear state of consciousness in which sensible and emotional
parts are still inseparably merged, so that we may call them the sensible,
emotional states or emotionally stressed states or sensations. The presence
of pleasant and unpleasant emotionalstates i evident from the childr's
general appearance, expression of the face, or character of the cry as in
the first days of his life. (English Volume Five, p. 212). "

The whole of 211-215 is Vygotsky's argument that what exists at birth is
consciousness, though (because a critical neoformation) not conciousness as
we know it. One of his arguments (pedology of the adolescent, and also
lectures on pedology) against recapitulationism is that consciousness
emerges at the beginning of the story and sexual reproduction at the end,
while in phylogeny it's pretty much the other way around.

I don't think that Vygotsky's earlier formulation--"the perezhivanie of
perezhivanie"--is incorrect: if we are talking loosely about the "meaning
of meaning" then it fits your bus ride example almost perfectly. You can
mystify absolutely anything if you just take context away from a text, but
if we are going to take meaning seriously, we have to take context
seriously. For example, when Wolff-Michael says that Vygotsky rejected
both "scientific" and "interpretive" psychology, he doesn't mention the
context, which is "History of the Crisis in Psychology". Vygotsky's talking
about reflexology on the one hand and Dilthey's "interpretive" psychology
on the other. It's not about "quantitative" and "qualitative" research at
all.

David Kellogg

Recent Article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity* 24 (4) 'Metaphoric,
Metonymic, Eclectic, or Dialectic? A Commentary on “Neoformation: A
Dialectical Approach to Developmental Change”'

Free e-print available (for a short time only) at

http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/YAWPBtmPM8knMCNg6sS6/full

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 9:13 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:

> A question for Michael and David concerning consciousness as perezhivanie
> of
> perezhivanie ---
>
> I think that in one of the prior discussions of perezhivanie on xmca I gave
> the following example of my early encounter with the term, and want to
> introduce it again to get some clarity about the current discussion of
> Michael's article.
>
> Back when Russian rockets were heading to Cuba I used to commute from
> (Lenin, nee Sparrow Hills) to the main campus of MGU, I would take a bus in
> cold
> weather to avoid a long walk from the Metro. The bus was so crowded that at
> its second stop outside the downtown MGU campus, you would be lucky to be
> able to cram into the bus and it only got worse until nearing the campus.
>
> I seem to remember that if asked about the bus ride, I would either say
> that it was a kashmar (the French got to Moscow at an earlier date) or that
> I "perezhil" (past tense) the 111 bus. And as I said it, I would re-live,
> so to speak, my having lived through that intense, often unpleasant,
> experience. I think it would be grammatical and sensible to describe my
> recounting and re-membering that "experience" as perezhivanie of
> perzhivanie.
>
> Perhaps this is an inappropriate example. I was not using the term as part
> of a set of theoretical terms (Vasilyuk had not written his book on
> perezhivanie and I do not recall being present for a discussion, either of
> why Leontiev was right and Vygotsky wrong (or vice versa) about
> perezhivanie. And I hope I was paying attention and conscious of what I was
> doing both times I used the term.
>
> Perhaps in the early Vygotsky where the perezhivanie of perezhivanie
> comment appears he was using the term, perezhivanie in an everyday sense of
> the term, but later it was used as a scientific term?
>
> David -- where does LSV write that consciousness begins at birth? Seems
> important to know.
>
> Thanks for the interesting discussion.
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For those like myself who never got past intro chemistry or physics, but
> are interested in qualitative research,
> this site might be of interest. I notice there is a blog on the topic as
> well as a relevant resource page. Perfect prep for reading Martin's book!
> :-)
>
> mike
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