[Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie of perezhivanie

Mon Dec 18 16:28:36 PST 2017

I have always taken it that Marxists (Vygotsky included)
take "consciousness" to be a very inclusive term, as opposed
to people like the Philosophy of Mind people, cognitive
psychologists and analytical philosophy generally, who take
"consciousness" to mean something more like what Vygotsky
would mean by "conscious awareness." For example, John R.
Searle says that consciousness is what begins when you wake
up in the morning and ends when you go to sleep or die."
Others (such as Hegel) reserve "consciousness" for some
special grade of consciousness, but take as fundamental some
more inclusive term such as "Psyche" (or "Seele" in German)
which play the same role as "consciousness" does in Marxism.
I don't wish to derail the discussion around Michael's
paper, and look forward to more discussion around this
expression: "perezhivanie of perezhivanie," but at the time
Vygotsky used this expression, as I recall (perhaps
incorrectly) in the context of struggles against dualist and
behaviouristic conceptions, a point at which the concept of
"consciousness" was the subject of deep confusion.

I apologise for the distraction, and look forward to
discussion of "perezhivanie of perezhivanie."

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 19/12/2017 11:13 AM, mike cole wrote:
> A question for Michael and David concerning consciousness as perezhivanie
> of
> perezhivanie ---
>
> I think that in one of the prior discussions of perezhivanie on xmca I gave
> the following example of my early encounter with the term, and want to
> introduce it again to get some clarity about the current discussion of
> Michael's article.
>
> Back when Russian rockets were heading to Cuba I used to commute from
> (Lenin, nee Sparrow Hills) to the main campus of MGU, I would take a bus in
> cold
> weather to avoid a long walk from the Metro. The bus was so crowded that at
> its second stop outside the downtown MGU campus, you would be lucky to be
> able to cram into the bus and it only got worse until nearing the campus.
>
> I seem to remember that if asked about the bus ride, I would either say
> that it was a kashmar (the French got to Moscow at an earlier date) or that
> I "perezhil" (past tense) the 111 bus. And as I said it, I would re-live,
> so to speak, my having lived through that intense, often unpleasant,
> experience. I think it would be grammatical and sensible to describe my
> recounting and re-membering that "experience" as perezhivanie of
> perzhivanie.
>
> Perhaps this is an inappropriate example. I was not using the term as part
> of a set of theoretical terms (Vasilyuk had not written his book on
> perezhivanie and I do not recall being present for a discussion, either of
> why Leontiev was right and Vygotsky wrong (or vice versa) about
> perezhivanie. And I hope I was paying attention and conscious of what I was
> doing both times I used the term.
>
> Perhaps in the early Vygotsky where the perezhivanie of perezhivanie
> comment appears he was using the term, perezhivanie in an everyday sense of
> the term, but later it was used as a scientific term?
>
> David -- where does LSV write that consciousness begins at birth? Seems
> important to know.
>
> Thanks for the interesting discussion.
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For those like myself who never got past intro chemistry or physics, but
> are interested in qualitative research,
> this site might be of interest. I notice there is a blog on the topic as
> well as a relevant resource page. Perfect prep for reading Martin's book!
> :-)
>
> mike
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