[Xmca-l] Re: Appeal for help

[Andy Blunden]

Perhaps xmca could take a break from discussing Ethics while 
everyone studies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/introduction/

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://home.mira.net/~andy
http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making 

On 8/07/2016 10:03 PM, Jonathan Tudge wrote:
> I think that virtue ethicists influenced by Aristotle would be cautious
> about linking virtues and habits. A habit may be simply rule-governed.  For
> example, I follow the rule to always say "thank you" when given a gift and
> always give, in return, a gift of equal value, but I do so without
> understanding why I should express thanks.  I can hardly be said to have
> the virtue of gratitude.  That's why neo-Aristotelians invoke the concept
> of phronesis, or practical wisdom.  I have to understand the meaning of
> expressing thanks and engaging in grateful behaviour, as well as doing it
> on a regular basis (when appropriate), and that comes with experience.
>
> In case anyone's interested, fuller thoughts on this issue appear in Tudge,
> Freitas, & O'Brien (2015). The virtue of gratitude: A developmental and
> cultural approach. * Human Development, 58*, 281-300.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jon
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Jonathan Tudge
>
> Professor
> Office: 155 Stone
>
> http://morethanthanks.wp.uncg.edu/
>
> Mailing address:
> 248 Stone Building
> Department of Human Development and Family Studies
> PO Box 26170
> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro
> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
> USA
>
> phone (336) 223-6181
> fax   (336) 334-5076
>
> http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/facultystaff/Tudge/Tudge.html
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 11:30 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone have suggestions of writings on ethics from a CHAT perspective?
>>
>> Also, I was quite taken by Annalisa's linking ethics to "habit" precisely
>> because this is the way that I would like to construe ethics - embodied
>> habits/dispositions (person X habitually responds to a particular type of
>> situation with behavior Y). To say anything more requires invoking one
>> ethical framework or another (and even my definition does this since the
>> construal of "a particular type of situation" as such necessarily already
>> invokes cultural meaningfulnesses that are also likely to entail ethical
>> frameworks).
>>
>> -greg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>>
>>> ... and this is really not the forum for clarifying these issues of
>>> Ethics, honestly.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy
>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>>> On 8/07/2016 11:36 AM, Christopher Schuck wrote:
>>>
>>>> Much of this last interchange seems to be as much about meta-ethics as
>>>> normative ethics. Andy chooses to identify ethics with human activity in
>>>> terms of practical norms (and some epistemologists argue that practical
>>>> reason is inherently normative). Others might see it more in terms of
>>>> "ideal good" (as Annalisa put it). If we're discussing how ethics is to
>>>> even be conceptualized and approached (e.g. questioning dichotomies of
>>>> "good" and "evil", whether a priori or a posteriori is relevant, virtues
>>>> as
>>>> opposed to criterion-based consequentialism) - we're getting into
>>>> meta-ethics. For what that's worth.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Andy,
>>>>>
>>>>> So you are describing Normative Ethics, not Ethics.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly, "ethics" does derive from the Greek word for "habit"
>>>>> (????).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A habit seems to have a lack of awareness in it. Certainly habits are
>>>>> hard
>>>>> to break, which is why we hope to have good habits, not bad ones.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless you would like to define what you mean by "Practical norms" it
>>>>> seems to be an "amoral" phrase to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Typically, as I understand it, ethics is the study of human morality in
>>>>> the attempt to define what is good and right, vs. not good and not
>> right
>>>>> so
>>>>> one can determine what is proper actions to live by (what habits are
>>>>> worth
>>>>> having). I consider that to be a consideration of values a priori. In
>>>>> terms
>>>>> of what is ideal or hypothetical.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Normative ethics seems to be a study of actions a posteriori, after the
>>>>> fact.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note that I do not like to use the terms "evil" or "wrong" and
>>>>> prefer to orient from the relations of what is good and what is right.
>>>>> This
>>>>> avoids dichotomies, and it allows for a spectrum of something being
>> more
>>>>> right, or having more goodness than something else.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Getting back to utilitarianism, I still see it as a justification for
>>>>> economics, that is, economics as practiced today, which is usually not
>>>>> done
>>>>> scientifically, though it is very mathematical in nature. To measure
>>>>> utility requires all kinds of strange formulae, and that's why I used
>> the
>>>>> metaphor hall of mirrors.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Still, I prefer to consider utility as a projection, than a reflection.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Eating humans has a projected value of goodness in one society, but not
>>>>> in
>>>>> another.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not harming myself or others seems to have a universal application, and
>>>>> so
>>>>> it doesn't seem to be a projected subjective value, but a reflected
>> one,
>>>>> if
>>>>> I may claim that a projected value is relative and subjective while a
>>>>> reflected one is a universal, objective value.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Happiness is also a universal, objective value. I don't know anyone who
>>>>> doesn't value happiness. However what makes people happy is a
>> projected,
>>>>> subjective value. That's where utility comes in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For what that is worth.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Annalisa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Anthropology
>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> Brigham Young University
>> Provo, UT 84602
>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>
>