[Xmca-l] Re: Two paths of mediation, or perhaps three

Andy Blunden ablunden@mira.net
Tue Nov 24 17:58:23 PST 2015


I suppose I am talking about etymology as an insight into 
the institutions rather than the words.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 25/11/2015 12:27 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
> Quite so, Andy.  But what concept is being used when 
> someone refers to their "teacher", "manager" or 
> "supervisor".  These institutionalised terms have little 
> to do with their authentic/innocent meanings.  "Team lead" 
> is surely on the way too, and presumably "mentor" is under 
> assault (to the degree of its co-option in an 
> institution).  :)
>
> Huw
>
> On 24 November 2015 at 23:57, Andy Blunden 
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
>     "Not have anything to do with" would not be quite
>     right in my view. I have always believed that the
>     study of a word's etymology sheds light on the concept
>     it names, but mainly because it brings into relief the
>     genesis of the concept itself and its interconnections
>     - puts the frame back into the movie.
>     But to say that the "original" meaning of a word is
>     the "true" meaning of the word (or other symbol or
>     practice) is called "the genetic fallacy."
>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
>     Andy
>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>     *Andy Blunden*
>     http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>     <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>     On 25/11/2015 9:11 AM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>
>         Now I am confused.  How could a word's meaning not
>         have anything to do with
>         etymology?  :)
>
>         Huw
>
>         On 24 November 2015 at 21:49, mike cole
>         <mcole@ucsd.edu <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>
>             The word, pickle, never occurred to me, Tom.
>             Kisli I immediately equated
>             with sour. It was the kraut part that I was
>             opaque. That part of my example
>             had nothing to do with etymology, Huw. My wife
>             reminded me of it when I
>             reported the first part.
>
>             So complicated to communicate about such
>             experiences. And of course open to
>             multiple interpretations.  Still, I like
>             mine...of course! :-)
>             Mike
>
>             On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Tom Richardson <
>             tom.richardson3@googlemail.com
>             <mailto:tom.richardson3@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 To butt in  again - surely 'sauer' also
>                 means 'acidic' - pickled cabbage?
>                 Tom
>                 Middlesbrough UK
>
>                 On 24 November 2015 at 16:31, Huw Lloyd
>                 <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>                 <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
>                     I wouldn't have thought that a prior
>                     meaning blocks the path to the
>
>                 primary
>
>                     meaning necessarily.  The norm, it
>                     seems, is that we are unaware of the
>                     etymological roots of words.  And that
>                     unless one was practiced at
>                     questioning the structure of the word
>                     forms then a discovery is not
>
>                 really
>
>                     blocked as so much as never sought in
>                     the first place.  Personally, it
>                     seems to me that when I enquire into
>                     an etymological meaning and find
>
>             it
>
>                     consonant with a a more pervasive
>                     (though little understood)
>
>                 understanding,
>
>                     I take some temporary satisfaction in
>                     one more accounting in the
>
>                 reckoning
>
>                     against our stupid society.
>
>                     As for (sauer)kraut, I think we could
>                     say the same for the more
>                     contemporary neo-liberal.  Both terms
>                     point back to the speaker (and
>                     artificer) of the word's confusions
>                     and sour-grapes which are projected
>                     onto the protagonist  -- such is war
>                     and politics.
>
>                     Huw
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                     On 24 November 2015 at 06:17, Andy
>                     Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>                     <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>
>                 <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
>                         You've got a good head on your
>                         shoulders, Mike!
>                         andy
>                         ------------------------------------------------------------
>                         *Andy Blunden*
>                         http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>                         <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
>                         On 24/11/2015 3:25 PM, mike cole
>                         wrote:
>
>                             Oops, i should have proof read
>                             before rushing off. here is a
>
>             slightly
>
>                             cleaner text. Same ideas. :-)
>                             mike
>                             -------------
>
>                             Two paths of mediated thought
>                             through three languages.
>
>
>
>                             The topic arose because we
>                             were eating an almost great
>                             chiappino. I
>
>                     said,
>
>                             "Lets make that a part of the
>                             repertoire and my mind drifted
>                             to a
>
>                 search
>
>                             for other soups I love, but
>                             have not experienced in a long
>                             time.
>
>                 "Shi,"
>
>                     I
>
>                             suggested. Shi is a soup made
>                             from saurkraut. "I don't like shi"
>
>                 Sheila
>
>                             replied. "I was think we
>                             should find a Russian
>                             restaurant that has
>
>                 good
>
>                             shi," I responded. That way,
>                             you could have something you
>                             do like."
>
>                     Then I
>
>                             thought about the properties
>                             of good shi and I code
>                             switched into
>
>                     Russian.
>
>                             "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a
>                             heavy emphasis on the word,
>                             kisli, to
>                             emphasize that is *sour *
>                             kapusta in contrast with the
>                             usual cabbage
>
>                     soup,
>
>                             or the kind of cabbage you
>                             have in borscht. Then I thought to
>
>             myself,
>
>                             kisli-sour ..... oh, the
>                             *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
>
>
>
>                             I remarked to Sheila that it
>                             was remarkable that I had
>                             somehow never
>                             connected the word kraut, as
>                             in sour kraut, with the word
>                             cabbage,
>
>                 even
>
>                             though it you asked me what
>                             sour kraut was made of, I would of
>
>             course
>
>                     say
>
>                             cabbage. Why did I have to
>                             discover that kraut means
>                             cabbage from
>                             remembering the delicious
>                             smell of schi?
>
>
>
>                             My strong hunch is that the
>                             answer lies with the fact that I
>
>                 experienced
>
>                             WWII as a preschooler who
>                             became obsessed with the war.
>                             All during
>
>             my
>
>                             boyood I read countless
>                             fictional and historical
>                             accounts of the
>
>             war.
>
>                     The,
>
>                             and in later years that war
>                             was depicted over and over
>                             again in
>
>             films
>
>                     from
>
>                             the Guns of Navaronne to
>                             Private Ryan's war in a manner
>                             that fit
>
>             with
>
>                 my
>
>                             childhood image of WW II
>                             German soldiers, the SS, the
>                             Wermacht --
>                             "krauts."
>                             To me, the image of the word
>                             kraut, seems to have retained this
>
>                     primitive,
>
>                             early, persistent, organizing
>                             image.
>
>
>
>                             Because the word, kraut, was
>                             already occupied, when I
>                             thought of
>
>             shi,
>
>                 I
>
>                             was, it seems, thinking
>                             kisli/sour kapusta, without
>                             incorporating
>
>             the
>
>                             knowledge that
>
>                             kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbage.
>
>
>
>                             Odd how mediation works.
>
>                             And odd too, that my name is
>                             Cole.  If you look in the
>                             dictionary
>
>             for
>
>                     the
>
>                             definition of the word, cole,
>                             you will find something like this:
>
>
>
>                             "any plant belonging to the
>                             genus Brassica, of the mustard
>                             family,including many
>                             economically important
>                             vegetables, such as
>                             *cabbage.*.......
>
>                             On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:16
>                             PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
>                             <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
>
>                 <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
>                             the following observations
>                             might be of interest. I wonder
>                             if others
>
>                 have
>
>                                 had similar experiences.
>                                 The dynamics of language
>                                 and the paths of
>                                 mediation seem to be clear
>                                 to me, but maybe that is
>                                 just an
>
>             illusory
>
>                                 artifact of reporting on
>                                 introspective reports.
>
>                                 what, as Dr. Matusov is
>                                 fond of asking, do you think?
>                                 mike
>                                 --------------------------------------------
>                                    Two paths of mediated
>                                 thought through three
>                                 languages.
>
>
>
>                                 The topic arose because we
>                                 were eating an almost
>                                 great chiappino. I
>
>                     said,
>
>                                 "Lets make that a part of
>                                 the repetoir and my mind
>                                 drifted to a
>
>                 search
>
>                                 for
>                                 other soups I love, but
>                                 have not experienced in a
>                                 long time.
>
>             "Shi," I
>
>                                 suggested. Shi is a soup
>                                 made from saurkraut. "I
>                                 don't like shi"
>
>                 Sheila
>
>                                 replied. "I was think we
>                                 should find a Russian
>                                 restaurant that has
>
>                 good
>
>                                 shi," I responded. That
>                                 way, you could have
>                                 something you do like."
>
>                     Then
>
>                                 I
>                                 thought about the
>                                 properties of good shi and
>                                 I code switched into
>                                 Russian.
>                                 "Kisli kapusta, I said,
>                                 with a heavy emphasis on
>                                 the word, kisli,
>
>             to
>
>                                 emphasize that is *sour *
>                                 kapusta in contrast with
>                                 the usual
>
>             cabbage
>
>                                 soup, or the kind of
>                                 cabbage you have in
>                                 borscht. Then I thought to
>                                 myself,
>                                 kisli-sour ..... oh, the
>                                 *kraut *part of shi means
>                                 cabbage!
>
>
>
>                                 I remarked to Sheila that
>                                 it was remarkable that I
>                                 had somehow
>
>             never
>
>                                 connected the word kraut,
>                                 as in sour kraut, with the
>                                 word cabbage,
>
>                 even
>
>                                 though it you asked me
>                                 what sour kraut was made
>                                 of, I would of
>
>             course
>
>                     say
>
>                                 cabbage. Why did I have to
>                                 discover that kraut means
>                                 cabbage from
>                                 remembering the delicious
>                                 smell of schi?
>
>
>
>                                 My strong hunch is that,
>                                 because I experienced WWII
>                                 as a
>
>             preschooler
>
>                     who
>
>                                 became obsessed with the
>                                 war. All during my boyood
>                                 I read fictional
>
>                 and
>
>                                 historical accounts of the
>                                 war. In later years that
>                                 war was
>
>             depicted
>
>                     over
>
>                                 and over again in films
>                                 from the Guns of Navarone
>                                 to Private Ryan's
>
>                 war
>
>                                 in
>                                 a manner that fit with my
>                                 childhood image of WW II
>                                 German soldiers,
>
>                 the
>
>                                 SS,
>                                 the Wermacht -- "krauts."
>                                 To me, the image of the
>                                 word kraut, seems
>
>                 to
>
>                                 have
>                                 retained this primitive,
>                                 early, persistent,
>                                 organizing image.
>
>
>
>                                 Because the word, kraut,
>                                 was already occupied, when
>                                 I thought of
>
>                 shi, I
>
>                                 was, it seems, thinking
>                                 kisli/sour kapusta,
>                                 without incorporating
>
>             the
>
>                                 knowledge that
>
>                                 kapusta =kraut-->
>                                 kraut=cabbabe.
>
>
>
>                                 Odd how mediation works.
>
>                                 And odd too, that my name
>                                 is Cole.  If you look in
>                                 the dictionary
>
>             for
>
>                     the
>
>                                 definition of the word,
>                                 cole, you will find
>                                 something like this:
>
>
>
>
>                                 "any plant belonging to
>                                 the genus Brassica, of the
>                                 mustard
>                                 family,including many
>
>                                 economically important
>                                 vegetables, such as
>                                 *cabbage.*.......
>
>
>                                 ​darn!​
>
>
>
>                                 --
>
>                                 It is the dilemma of
>                                 psychology to deal as a
>                                 natural science with
>
>             an
>
>                                 object that creates
>                                 history. Ernst Boesch
>
>
>
>
>
>             --
>
>             It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a
>             natural science with an
>             object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
>
>
>



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