[Xmca-l] Re: Two paths of mediation, or perhaps three

Tue Nov 24 14:11:24 PST 2015

Now I am confused.  How could a word's meaning not have anything to do with
etymology?  :)

Huw

On 24 November 2015 at 21:49, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:

> The word, pickle, never occurred to me, Tom. Kisli I immediately equated
> with sour. It was the kraut part that I was opaque. That part of my example
> had nothing to do with etymology, Huw. My wife reminded me of it when I
> reported the first part.
>
> So complicated to communicate about such experiences. And of course open to
> multiple interpretations.  Still, I like mine...of course! :-)
> Mike
>
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Tom Richardson <
> tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > To butt in  again - surely 'sauer' also means 'acidic' - pickled cabbage?
> > Tom
> > Middlesbrough UK
> >
> > On 24 November 2015 at 16:31, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > I wouldn't have thought that a prior meaning blocks the path to the
> > primary
> > > meaning necessarily.  The norm, it seems, is that we are unaware of the
> > > etymological roots of words.  And that unless one was practiced at
> > > questioning the structure of the word forms then a discovery is not
> > really
> > > blocked as so much as never sought in the first place.  Personally, it
> > > seems to me that when I enquire into an etymological meaning and find
> it
> > > consonant with a a more pervasive (though little understood)
> > understanding,
> > > I take some temporary satisfaction in one more accounting in the
> > reckoning
> > > against our stupid society.
> > >
> > > As for (sauer)kraut, I think we could say the same for the more
> > > contemporary neo-liberal.  Both terms point back to the speaker (and
> > > artificer) of the word's confusions and sour-grapes which are projected
> > > onto the protagonist  -- such is war and politics.
> > >
> > > Huw
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 24 November 2015 at 06:17, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You've got a good head on your shoulders, Mike!
> > > > andy
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > *Andy Blunden*
> > > > http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> > > >
> > > > On 24/11/2015 3:25 PM, mike cole wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Oops, i should have proof read before rushing off. here is a
> slightly
> > > >> cleaner text. Same ideas. :-)
> > > >> mike
> > > >> -------------
> > > >>
> > > >> Two paths of mediated thought through three languages.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> The topic arose because we were eating an almost great chiappino. I
> > > said,
> > > >> "Lets make that a part of the repertoire and my mind drifted to a
> > search
> > > >> for other soups I love, but have not experienced in a long time.
> > "Shi,"
> > > I
> > > >> suggested. Shi is a soup made from saurkraut. "I don't like shi"
> > Sheila
> > > >> replied. "I was think we should find a Russian restaurant that has
> > good
> > > >> shi," I responded. That way, you could have something you do like."
> > > Then I
> > > >> thought about the properties of good shi and I code switched into
> > > Russian.
> > > >> "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a heavy emphasis on the word, kisli, to
> > > >> emphasize that is *sour * kapusta in contrast with the usual cabbage
> > > soup,
> > > >> or the kind of cabbage you have in borscht. Then I thought to
> myself,
> > > >> kisli-sour ..... oh, the *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I remarked to Sheila that it was remarkable that I had somehow never
> > > >> connected the word kraut, as in sour kraut, with the word cabbage,
> > even
> > > >> though it you asked me what sour kraut was made of, I would of
> course
> > > say
> > > >> cabbage. Why did I have to discover that kraut means cabbage from
> > > >> remembering the delicious smell of schi?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> My strong hunch is that the answer lies with the fact that I
> > experienced
> > > >> WWII as a preschooler who became obsessed with the war. All during
> my
> > > >> boyood I read countless fictional and historical accounts of the
> war.
> > > The,
> > > >> and in later years that war was depicted over and over again in
> films
> > > from
> > > >> the Guns of Navaronne to Private Ryan's war in a manner that fit
> with
> > my
> > > >> childhood image of WW II German soldiers, the SS, the Wermacht --
> > > >> "krauts."
> > > >> To me, the image of the word kraut, seems to have retained this
> > > primitive,
> > > >> early, persistent, organizing image.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Because the word, kraut, was already occupied, when I thought of
> shi,
> > I
> > > >> was, it seems, thinking kisli/sour kapusta, without incorporating
> the
> > > >> knowledge that
> > > >>
> > > >> kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbage.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Odd how mediation works.
> > > >>
> > > >> And odd too, that my name is Cole.  If you look in the dictionary
> for
> > > the
> > > >> definition of the word, cole, you will find something like this:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> "any plant belonging to the genus Brassica, of the mustard
> > > >> family,including many
> > > >> economically important vegetables, such as *cabbage.*.......
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:16 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> the following observations might be of interest. I wonder if others
> > have
> > > >>> had similar experiences. The dynamics of language and the paths of
> > > >>> mediation seem to be clear to me, but maybe that is just an
> illusory
> > > >>> artifact of reporting on introspective reports.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> what, as Dr. Matusov is fond of asking, do you think?
> > > >>> mike
> > > >>> --------------------------------------------
> > > >>>   Two paths of mediated thought through three languages.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The topic arose because we were eating an almost great chiappino. I
> > > said,
> > > >>> "Lets make that a part of the repetoir and my mind drifted to a
> > search
> > > >>> for
> > > >>> other soups I love, but have not experienced in a long time.
> "Shi," I
> > > >>> suggested. Shi is a soup made from saurkraut. "I don't like shi"
> > Sheila
> > > >>> replied. "I was think we should find a Russian restaurant that has
> > good
> > > >>> shi," I responded. That way, you could have something you do like."
> > > Then
> > > >>> I
> > > >>> thought about the properties of good shi and I code switched into
> > > >>> Russian.
> > > >>> "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a heavy emphasis on the word, kisli,
> to
> > > >>> emphasize that is *sour * kapusta in contrast with the usual
> cabbage
> > > >>> soup, or the kind of cabbage you have in borscht. Then I thought to
> > > >>> myself,
> > > >>> kisli-sour ..... oh, the *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I remarked to Sheila that it was remarkable that I had somehow
> never
> > > >>> connected the word kraut, as in sour kraut, with the word cabbage,
> > even
> > > >>> though it you asked me what sour kraut was made of, I would of
> course
> > > say
> > > >>> cabbage. Why did I have to discover that kraut means cabbage from
> > > >>> remembering the delicious smell of schi?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> My strong hunch is that, because I experienced WWII as a
> preschooler
> > > who
> > > >>> became obsessed with the war. All during my boyood I read fictional
> > and
> > > >>> historical accounts of the war. In later years that war was
> depicted
> > > over
> > > >>> and over again in films from the Guns of Navarone to Private Ryan's
> > war
> > > >>> in
> > > >>> a manner that fit with my childhood image of WW II German soldiers,
> > the
> > > >>> SS,
> > > >>> the Wermacht -- "krauts." To me, the image of the word kraut, seems
> > to
> > > >>> have
> > > >>> retained this primitive, early, persistent, organizing image.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Because the word, kraut, was already occupied, when I thought of
> > shi, I
> > > >>> was, it seems, thinking kisli/sour kapusta, without incorporating
> the
> > > >>> knowledge that
> > > >>>
> > > >>> kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbabe.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Odd how mediation works.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> And odd too, that my name is Cole.  If you look in the dictionary
> for
> > > the
> > > >>> definition of the word, cole, you will find something like this:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "any plant belonging to the genus Brassica, of the mustard
> > > >>> family,including many
> > > >>>
> > > >>> economically important vegetables, such as *cabbage.*.......
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> darn!
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>>
> > > >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with
> an
> > > >>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
>