[Xmca-l] Re: CoExperiencing as a Philosophy of Practice.
Andy Blunden
ablunden@mira.net
Sat Nov 7 19:15:28 PST 2015
I think that the traditional arrangement of departments and
research centres is not in itself problematic. It does
require an openness to individual's having diverse CVs and
arguments drawing on different traditions. Wilhelm Wundt
would hopefully still be able to get a job in a Psychology
department.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 8/11/2015 1:37 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
> And a concurrent albeit perhaps more down-to-earth
> consideration is how is such a research body
> administered? Is that why Andy is referring to the arts,
> particularly?
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
> On 8 November 2015 at 02:33, Huw Lloyd
> <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
> <mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> From what I can discern, the convergence of units here
> make for an interesting problem. It seems it would be
> something like "the consciousness of goal formation".
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
> On 7 November 2015 at 02:04, Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
> and I think there is a dire need for such a
> convergence as well.
> One of the contributing factors to the
> anti-science currents which can lead to great
> medical, political and social problems is
> antipathy to one particular, dominant *style* of
> science, and I think entanglement between science
> and the arts promotes a broader feel for different
> styles of science.
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
> On 7/11/2015 12:15 PM, mike cole wrote:
>
> Larry, I strongly believe that there is a
> convergence of humanities and
> social/behavioral sciences going on as one
> thread of academic discourse
> congenial to CHAT. A real good location for
> pursuing it is. The Comm dept
> at UCSD, if we add the arts as part off the mix.
> That's my story at least. :-)
>
> Mike
>
> On Friday, November 6, 2015, Larry Purss
> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I thought I would add the last paragraph
> of Alex Kozulin's review of
> Vasiliyuk's book.
>
> By choosing the literary model of human
> experiencing, Vasilyuk affirms his
> adherence to the humanistic, rather than
> scientific approach to human
> psychology. His work can also be seen as a
> blueprint for the future
> convergence of humanistic psychology with
> Vygotsky’s cultural-historical
> theory of human development .
>
> This premonition that some new
> convergence is on the horizon. The coming
> intersection forming a hybrid character.
> Do others agree that we may be moving in
> the direction of a *literary
> model*?
> The discussion of White's narrative
> approach [using Bruner's notion of
> scaffolding] may be an example.
>
> Vasilyuk's key understanding as
> expressed in his concept of consciousness
> that has two essential aspects [and their
> relations]
> *stratigraphy* as layered registers of
> depth or height. Each *layer* is a
> life-world.
> *structure* of the smallest molecule as
> unit of consciousness IS a *mental
> image* A mental image having the
> structure of the two magnetic poles and
> the dynamic of consciousness moving within
> this dynamic *image* like the
> flow of plasma. Depth of layers AND
> mental images interact generating
> consciousness.
>
> Vasilyuk's philosophy of practice as 1st
> order word that is originating
> within the liminal spaces on the
> boundaries OF humanistic THEORY and
> cultural historical THEORY of human
> development.
>
> Consciousness as the originating site of
> meaning-GENERATION forming within
> co-experiencing *situations*. In other
> words situated consciousness as
> working experience.
>
> This is a fragment but does express a *tone*
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Larry
> Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> Mike, the declaration that cultural
> mediation [in particular the symbolic
> level] is a key element can put aside
> psychoanalysis and psychotherapy
> and turn to Vygotsky's own way of
> including this symbolic level of
> coexperiencing. Listen for the
> implicit movement marking the felt sense
>
> of
>
> having *fallen away* from a *source*
> and then finding one's way back to
>
> the
>
> *source* [and in this return entering
> *deeper* levels. I am referring to
> page 62 of Vasiliyuk's article "Prayer
> Silence, Psychotherapy".
>
> Vygotsky is exploring a *deeper*
> layer for experiencing suffering. Not a
> hedonistic flight from suffering, not
> masochistic consolation, not
>
> routine
>
> platitudes [always a silver lining]
> but a spiritual sublimation of
>
> sorrow.
>
> Elevating and deepening into the layer
> of experiencing the *source* by
> transforming this suffering by return
> to the eternal.
> Vygotsky images his life as *my star*
> in the heavens *marked* by sorrow.
> His personal life and his Jewish life
> *marked* by sorrow. BUT this star
>
> is
>
> IN THE HEAVENS. So the meaning of
> suffering [the falling away from the
> source] is not in fleeing from the
> suffering but in returning to the
> *source* [the eternal, the deepest
> layer of consciousness] . The meaning
>
> is
>
> *found* in the ELEVATION of suffering,
> elevtion on the wing OF A PRAYER
>
> TO
>
> GOD. The transformation of suffering
> IN GOD.
>
> Vygotsky's metaphor is a personal
> particular *image* expressing a deeply
> felt layer of experience. But within
> the particular unique felt image
>
> there
>
> is a general [not universal] plot
> [mytheme] that is historically
> traceable developing symbolic
> cultural imaginary.
>
> The plot can shift what is *source*
> [God, sublime, the *self*] and this
> can be historically traced[including
> the work of experiencing the
>
> authentic
>
> true *self* in psychology].
>
> Suzanne Kirschner has traced these
> transformations in this myth from
> religious origins, transformed within
> the Romantic movement, and shifting
> into psychological theories today.
>
> The point I am offering is that
> Vygotsky as Vasilyuk his project was
> touched by this mytheme. Peirce in his
> speculative musings, also was
>
> pulled
>
> into this mytheme.
>
> I am not suggesting this plot is
> fundamental or foundational but the
> yearning for this plot to be universal
> envelops and embodies us into this
> particular myth and is experienced as
> a deeply felt *truth*. It is only
>
> one
>
> of the *key elements* but it is a
> significant one of the keys to the
> philosophy of practice.
> The shift to secular themes [such as
> naturalism] does not change the
> underlying plot structure but does
> change the images that *have us*.
> Vygotsky saw his *star* ELEVATED to
> the heavens that transforms suffering
> which is the experience existing
> within a symbolic truth,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 5:00 PM, mike
> cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu> <javascript:;>>
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Larry--
>
> Thanks for your continuing
> explication of your reading of
> Vasiliuk.
> Putting
> aside psychoanalysis and
> psychotherapy for a moment, I am
> totally behind
> the delaration
> that *cultural mediation OF
> experience* which is a KEY
> ELEMENT", plus
> co-experiencing as the necessary
> condition for that cultural mediation.
>
> mike
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:17 PM,
> Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> Vasilyuk is developing the
> *philosophy of Practice* as a
>
> psychotechnical
>
> *system*.
> He says in his historical
> outline of the different
> *basic foundations*
>
> on
>
> which psychology has relied
> [from suggestibility to
> *becoming aware*
>
> to
>
> *emancipation* to reliance on
> learning to reliance on
> experiencing to
>
> the
>
> current reliance on
> experiencing [as
> existential/humanistic] which is
> intersecting with todays
> reliance on productively
> producing internal
> psychological transformations
> oriented to enriching the
> meaning of
>
> being.
>
> Vasilyuk says the task
> exploring the changing
> reliances of psychology
>
> as a
>
> practice is not to describe
> the *factual* history of
> psychology and
>
> the
>
> reliances of psychotherapy but
> to elicit the logic of history. In
>
> other
>
> words to *listen* to the
> evolving IMPLICIT plot that
> gives meaning and
> direction to the subsequent
> acts of the development of
> psychology.
>
> (page
>
> 11)
>
> One of the key elements
> Vasilyuk identifies is the
> concept of
>
> *cultural
>
> mediation of experiences*. He
> says:
> Historically cumulative
> experiencings with standard
> situations
>
> crystallize
>
> in various SYMBOLIC FORMS;
> when a person experiences
> crises, his
> consciousness might get
> connected to these symbolic
> forms, an so the
> process of experiencing,
> without losing its
> personality-oriented
> uniqueness, gains ADDITIONAL
> DEPTH AND PRODUCTIVITY. (page 18).
>
> It is this additional depth
> and productivity as symbolic
> that Vasilyuk
>
> is
>
> generating within his evolving
> implicit *plot* oriented to
>
> transforming
>
> psychology in order to enrich
> the meaning of being. This is
> also the
>
> theme
>
> Vasilyuk is relying on in his
> other article *Prayer,
> Silence, and
> Psychotherapy*. This is the
> living symbol of prayer on the
> boundary of
> experiencing and
> silence/stillness.
>
> Here is Vygotsky exploring the
> *depth* of symbolism in his
> own words:
>
> Ophelia's tragedy [a
> personification] is exactly
> LIKE a lyrical
> accompaniment, that towers
> over the entire play, which is
> full of the
> dreadful torment of
> INEXPRESSIBILITY, of the most
> profound dark,
> mysterious, and SACRED
> melodies that in some
> incomprehensible and
> miraculous way REVEAL AND
> EMBODY what is most exciting,
> most allusive,
>
> and
>
> touchingly important, what is
> DEEPEST AND DARKEST, but what
> is most
>
> tragic
>
> that is OVERCOME and
> enlightened, and what IS MOST
> MYSTICAL in the
>
> entire
>
> play. Thus tragedy turns into
> PRAYER .... as though with an
> oblational
>
> and
>
> expiatory and PRAYERFUL light,
> it gives religious
> illumination to the
> tragedy." (page 61 of
> Vasilyuk's article.)
>
> Vasiliuk then comments: "No
> matter how much the devotees
> of Marxist
> materialism try to conceal
> Vygotsky's religiosity from
> themselves and
>
> us,
>
> it is perfectly obvious that
> THESE words [LP -1st order
> words] could
>
> only
>
> have been written by a person
> with deep personal EXPERIENCE with
>
> prayer."
>
> (page 61).
>
> To sum up, I am MARKING [for
> orientation purposes] the
> concept of
> *cultural mediation OF
> experience* which is a KEY
> ELEMENT of
>
> coexperiencing
>
> psychotherapy AS philosophy of
> practice. I believe that the same
>
> *symbolic
>
> gravity* can be expressed
> through changing images. The
> plot of
>
> "falling
>
> away from* and *returning to*
> can be expressed in multiple
> symbols
>
> such
>
> as turning away from God,
> turning away from the natural
> sublime,
>
> turning
>
> away from one's true authentic
> self, These images are expressing
>
> different
>
> *reliances* but are sharing
> the same symbolic plot as the
> cultural
> mediation of experiencing. The
> IMPLICIT deepening of
> coexperience that
>
> is
>
> now emerging in Russia since
> the 1980's that Vasilyuk is
> plotting may
>
> be
>
> implicitly enveloped in this
> same mytheme of falling away
> from *the
>
> source*
>
> and then the return to this
> *source.
>
> The book *The Religious and
> Romantic Roots of
> Psychoanalysis* by
>
> Suzanne
>
> Kirschner has plotted this
> particular myth flowing
> through Western
>
> ways
>
> of
>
> experiencing the meaning of
> being. She is tracing the
> roots of the
> emergence of Freudian
> psychoanalysis but it is the
> more general
>
> philosophy
>
> of practice as including this
> KEY ELEMENT of cultural
> mediation as
> deepening coexperiences that I
> am highlighting.
> As Vasilyuk says: the task is
> to LISTEN FOR *the evolving
> IMPLICIT
> plot that gives meaning and
> direction to the subsequent
> acts of the
> *development* of psychology
> [including the KEY symbolic
> element that
> *deepens* experience beyond
> the personal existential.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> --
>
> It is the dilemma of psychology to
> deal as a natural science with an
> object that creates history. Ernst
> Boesch
>
>
>
>
>
>
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