[Xmca-l] Re: Education & Society (was Resending LSV/ANL on crisis in ontogengy)

[mike cole]

Huw-- Would it be possible to link your observation and conclusion to the
question I was posing about Maisha's work? You wrote:....societies such as
our do
NOT provide schooling that provides a creative
understanding, i.e.  schooling cannot deliver this true form of education
under its manner of administration.  This is simply manifest in the
dominant role (priority) of the reproduction of notation rather than
genuine understanding, which is enforced by society (teaching to test on
behalf of 'societal needs').

A good deal of the ideology underpinning the generative activities
occurring in community settings requires "true form of education" that run
counter to the reproduction of existing relations of social inequality. So
how and when and under what conditions can such counter practices be
implemented in school settings? The belly of the beast?

mike


On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:42 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
wrote:

> The quote below is from El'konin's (1971) paper, Towards the problem of
> stages in the mental development of children
> <https://www.marxists.org/archive/elkonin/works/1971/stages.htm>.  This is
> simply asserting that societies such as ours (UK/US/AUS etc, and Russian
> too for this matter) do NOT provide schooling that provides a creative
> understanding, i.e.  schooling cannot deliver this true form of education
> under its manner of administration.  This is simply manifest in the
> dominant role (priority) of the reproduction of notation rather than
> genuine understanding, which is enforced by society (teaching to test on
> behalf of 'societal needs').
>
> Note that this assertion is not saying that one _develops_ in a manner in
> accordance with one's society (i.e. that different forms of society afford
> different, but commensurate, forms of development).  Rather it is asserting
> that development is prevented in certain modes of society.  The point,
> again, is that development here is referring to structural change in the
> cognitive capacity of the child/agent as a key component of developmental
> phenomena.
>
> Huw
>
> "The correct solution of the problem of developmental periods will in large
> measure determine the strategy employed in constructing a comprehensive
> educational system for the coming generation in our country. The practical
> significance of this problem will increase as we approach the point when we
> must elaborate the principles for a unified public system of education
> encompassing the entire period of childhood. We must emphasize the fact
> that the construction of such a system in compliance with the laws of
> developmental stages of childhood is possible only within a socialist
> society; for it is only in such a society that has a maximum interest in
> the full and harmonious development of the abilities of every one of its
> members and, consequently, in the fullest possible use of the potential of
> each developmental stage."
>
>
>
> On 23 March 2015 at 09:55, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> > Of course!
> > a
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> >
> >
> > Rod Parker-Rees wrote:
> >
> >> The system may work (more or less and more for some than others) but I
> >> don't see how it could be described as 'finished', Andy. There is a
> >> continuing, lively competition among groups of parents to identify
> >> 'better', 'kinder' or just 'faster' ways of supporting their children's
> >> development and a thriving market in books, classes, equipment etc. to
> >> 'help' parents to do the right thing for their children. There is a lot
> of
> >> exploitation and misinformation mixed up in this but the continuing play
> >> with different ways of doing things is probably beneficial in the longer
> >> term as it leavens cultural practices - preventing them from solidifying
> >> into a universally approved and prescribed practice which is good enough
> >> for most.
> >>
> >> Rod
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> >> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden
> >> Sent: 23 March 2015 00:40
> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Resending LSV/ANL on crisis in ontogengy
> >>
> >> I think that cultural forms of child-rearing and the corresponding
> >> expectations placed upon the child have been developed by communities
> over
> >> centuries and part of that process is the collective experience of the
> >> relevant practices. Doubtless all sorts of crazy practices have been
> tried
> >> out at different times, but if the children do not respond as expected,
> the
> >> idea is dropped or modified. I think this is the point at which the
> >> biological limitations and predispositions of children comes in. But the
> >> present-day child is presented with a finished, working system.
> >> I seem to recall that Barbara Rogoff has written about this.
> >> Andy
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> *Andy Blunden*
> >> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>



-- 
"Each new level of development is a new relevant context." C.H. Waddington