[Xmca-l] Re: Resending LSV/ANL on crisis in ontogengy

[Rod Parker-Rees]

The system may work (more or less and more for some than others) but I don't see how it could be described as 'finished', Andy. There is a continuing, lively competition among groups of parents to identify 'better', 'kinder' or just 'faster' ways of supporting their children's development and a thriving market in books, classes, equipment etc. to 'help' parents to do the right thing for their children. There is a lot of exploitation and misinformation mixed up in this but the continuing play with different ways of doing things is probably beneficial in the longer term as it leavens cultural practices - preventing them from solidifying into a universally approved and prescribed practice which is good enough for most.

Rod


-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden
Sent: 23 March 2015 00:40
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Resending LSV/ANL on crisis in ontogengy

I think that cultural forms of child-rearing and the corresponding expectations placed upon the child have been developed by communities over centuries and part of that process is the collective experience of the relevant practices. Doubtless all sorts of crazy practices have been tried out at different times, but if the children do not respond as expected, the idea is dropped or modified. I think this is the point at which the biological limitations and predispositions of children comes in. But the present-day child is presented with a finished, working system.
I seem to recall that Barbara Rogoff has written about this.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/


mike cole wrote:
> I find it a little odd to think that SSD has little to do with
> biological maturation.
> So few 6 month olds get married these days.
>
> However, the "structuring of forms the child does not yet 'have' " is
> certainly central to the sociocultural organization of human
> development. Among other things, mismatches in timing between adult
> normative expectations and child behaviors associated with, say, the
> maturation of bowel control or the ability to sit quietly at a desk
> for several hours at a time might just give rise to the kinds of
> phenomena that lSV refers to as crises.
>
> I am not sure. What are the criteria for a crisis? Are they generally
> agreed upon and to be found in practice-guiding texts for, say,
> professional pediatricians?
>
> It seems that the attached may be relevant to several of the remarks
> in this thread.
>
> Uncertain-in-so-cal
> mike
>
> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2013_01.dir/pdf5I3He7qyRQ.pdf
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> I think I agree with that (that SSD has little to do with biological
>> maturation).
>>
>> This is actually, to my reading, a subtle yet very appropriate
>> passage that Peg has unearthed or recollected.
>>
>> These things that the child really does need, wherein the child
>> conveys "I cannot get on without this", is a reference to materials
>> that enable the structuring of forms that the child does not yet
>> have, i.e. they are necessary (but perhaps insufficient on their own)
>> means to their development of neo-formations, or, indeed,
>> transformations in their way of knowing.
>>
>> The sense I get is that this imperative is not derived from a need to
>> comply with bureaucratic processes (e.g. black shoes must be worn at
>> school), but with a recognition that something objective and
>> fundamental cannot be achieved without it.
>>
>> Huw
>>
>>
>> On 22 March 2015 at 00:38, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> p. 365, "The Child's Psyche":
>>>
>>> "A child may or may not be bought a toy, but it is impossible not to
>>> buy it a textbook or an exercise book. The child therefore requests
>>> a schoolbook to be bought for it quite differently to how it asks
>>> for a toy to be bought. These requests have a different sense not
>>> only for its parents but above all for the child itself."
>>>
>>> I was thinking, in relation to Huw's issues, that really SSD is
>>> little to do with "biological maturation." It is to do with the
>>> normative series of roles, and these are found in bureaucracies as
>>> well as the modern life
>>>
>> of a
>>
>>> child.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>>
>>>
>>> Peg Griffin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thinking of growth which challenges social arrangements, Andy, am I
>>>> mistakenly remembering an anecdote like the following in Leontiev's
>>>> "Problems in the Development of Mind:"  A child not yet going to
>>>> school
>>>>
>> and
>>
>>>> a child going to school have different "calls" on the family to buy
>>>>
>> pencils
>>
>>>> or crayons -- might be nice for the younger one but absolute need
>>>> for
>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>> older one.   I hope this scenario is really there (or somewhere not
>>>>
>> just in
>>
>>>> my internal constructions] because in it socio-cultural
>>>> institutions
>>>>
>> impact
>>
>>>> one another and pull in the individual's growth while doing it and
>>>> then there's a wonderful arabesque rebound to the individual.
>>>> [Sorry I don't right now have a copy and a way to get to where this
>>>>
>> might
>>
>>>> be in the Leontiev book.  Hint:) I'm really pretty sure it's far
>>>> away
>>>>
>> from
>>
>>>> the part about trying to teach forearm cells to recognize light! ]
>>>> Peg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>

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