[Xmca-l] Re: Resending LSV/ANL on crisis in ontogengy

[Andy Blunden]

Rogoff attached
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/


Andy Blunden wrote:
> I think that cultural forms of child-rearing and the corresponding 
> expectations placed upon the child have been developed by communities 
> over centuries and part of that process is the collective experience 
> of the relevant practices. Doubtless all sorts of crazy practices have 
> been tried out at different times, but if the children do not respond 
> as expected, the idea is dropped or modified. I think this is the 
> point at which the biological limitations and predispositions of 
> children comes in. But the present-day child is presented with a 
> finished, working system.
> I seem to recall that Barbara Rogoff has written about this.
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>
>
> mike cole wrote:
>> I find it a little odd to think that SSD has little to do with 
>> biological
>> maturation.
>> So few 6 month olds get married these days.
>>
>> However, the "structuring of forms the child does not yet 'have' " is
>> certainly central
>> to the sociocultural organization of human development. Among other 
>> things,
>> mismatches
>> in timing between adult normative expectations and child behaviors
>> associated with, say,
>> the maturation of bowel control or the ability to sit quietly at a 
>> desk for
>> several hours at a time
>> might just give rise to the kinds of phenomena that lSV refers to as
>> crises.
>>
>> I am not sure. What are the criteria for a crisis? Are they generally
>> agreed upon and to be found
>> in practice-guiding texts for, say, professional pediatricians?
>>
>> It seems that the attached may be relevant to several of the remarks in
>> this thread.
>>
>> Uncertain-in-so-cal
>> mike
>>
>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2013_01.dir/pdf5I3He7qyRQ.pdf
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> I think I agree with that (that SSD has little to do with biological
>>> maturation).
>>>
>>> This is actually, to my reading, a subtle yet very appropriate 
>>> passage that
>>> Peg has unearthed or recollected.
>>>
>>> These things that the child really does need, wherein the child 
>>> conveys "I
>>> cannot get on without this", is a reference to materials that enable 
>>> the
>>> structuring of forms that the child does not yet have, i.e. they are
>>> necessary (but perhaps insufficient on their own) means to their
>>> development of neo-formations, or, indeed, transformations in their 
>>> way of
>>> knowing.
>>>
>>> The sense I get is that this imperative is not derived from a need to
>>> comply with bureaucratic processes (e.g. black shoes must be worn at
>>> school), but with a recognition that something objective and 
>>> fundamental
>>> cannot be achieved without it.
>>>
>>> Huw
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 March 2015 at 00:38, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>> p. 365, "The Child's Psyche":
>>>>
>>>> "A child may or may not be bought a toy, but it is impossible not 
>>>> to buy
>>>> it a textbook or an exercise book. The child therefore requests a
>>>> schoolbook to be bought for it quite differently to how it asks for 
>>>> a toy
>>>> to be bought. These requests have a different sense not only for its
>>>> parents but above all for the child itself."
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking, in relation to Huw's issues, that really SSD is 
>>>> little to
>>>> do with "biological maturation." It is to do with the normative 
>>>> series of
>>>> roles, and these are found in bureaucracies as well as the modern life
>>>>       
>>> of a
>>>    
>>>> child.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Peg Griffin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>> Thinking of growth which challenges social arrangements, Andy, am I
>>>>> mistakenly remembering an anecdote like the following in Leontiev's
>>>>> "Problems in the Development of Mind:"  A child not yet going to 
>>>>> school
>>>>>         
>>> and
>>>    
>>>>> a child going to school have different "calls" on the family to buy
>>>>>         
>>> pencils
>>>    
>>>>> or crayons -- might be nice for the younger one but absolute need for
>>>>>         
>>> the
>>>    
>>>>> older one.   I hope this scenario is really there (or somewhere not
>>>>>         
>>> just in
>>>    
>>>>> my internal constructions] because in it socio-cultural institutions
>>>>>         
>>> impact
>>>    
>>>>> one another and pull in the individual's growth while doing it and 
>>>>> then
>>>>> there's a wonderful arabesque rebound to the individual.
>>>>> [Sorry I don't right now have a copy and a way to get to where this
>>>>>         
>>> might
>>>    
>>>>> be in the Leontiev book.  Hint:) I'm really pretty sure it's far away
>>>>>         
>>> from
>>>    
>>>>> the part about trying to teach forearm cells to recognize light! ] 
>>>>> Peg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         
>>>>
>>>>       
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>
>
>
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