[Xmca-l] Re: BBC: Mind Changers

Mon Jul 13 11:36:08 PDT 2015

Hegelian (zeit)geist perhaps?

Hegel might have been a major link here - whether directly (as with Dewey
and Mead) or indirectly via Marx (as with Vygotsky - and maybe directly
too).

(and I know that the Hegel-Vygotsky connections have been a big deal on
this listserve so I meant to leave it ambiguous - I'm not well enough read
to intelligently take sides on this issue...)

-greg

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 11:14 AM, larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Message from Francine:
>
> The similarities between Vygotsky's theory and John Dewey's colleague
> George
> Herbert Mead's theory are even more striking. One thing that Vygotsky
> added, that Mead did not have, was the process of the internalization of
> speech (that could could be studied empirically (microgenetic)).
>
> Didn't Luria make a trip to the USA in the 1920s and presented a paper he
> co-authored with Vygotsky at a conference? I seem to recall reading that
> Vygotsky could not enter the USA because of his TB. Since papers are
> reviewed prior to acceptance there might have been some correspondence with
> members of a group like the APA. Both Dewey and his colleague J. R. Angell
> (founder of the psychology department at the University of Chicago) were
> both prominent members of the APA (also serving as its Presidents). Also
> Vygotsky traveled across Europe in the 1920s to present a paper in London
> (which I understand was never presented) - doubtless he had contact with
> several prominent psychologists (who might have read his paper as reviewers
> (and then rejected it ???)).
>
> Of course there might just have been a Zeitgeist.
>
> > From: mcole@ucsd.edu
> > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:14:42 -0700
> > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: BBC: Mind Changers
> >
> > The evidence of LSV having read at least some of Dewey is clear. Check
> the
> > indexes of his collected work in English.
> >
> > Their meeting is, as Peter says, a matter of speculation. The
> similarities
> > of their ideas in many respects is a matter of considerable
> interest/debate.
> > mike
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Greg, as far as I know, the evidence is shaky, which hasn't stopped
> > > speculation. One such effort:
> > > Richard Prawat: Dewey Meets the “Mozart of Psychology” in Moscow: The
> > > Untold Story American Educational Research Journal September 21, 2000
> 37:
> > > 663-696,
> > >
> > > I remember when it came out, it got some attention on xmca, which you
> can
> > > find in the archives I'm sure. p
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-l-bounces+smago=uga.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > > xmca-l-bounces+smago=uga.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg
> Thompson
> > > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 10:24 AM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: BBC: Mind Changers
> > >
> > > Francine,
> > > Don't forget that there was also that guy John Dewey that published The
> > > Reflex Arc Concept in Psychology in 1896.
> > > An important critique of behaviorism before it was cool.
> > > I once heard that Vygotsky might have read Dewey, but I've never seen
> > > evidence of this. Anyone?
> > > -greg
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 12:31 AM, larry smolucha <
> lsmolucha@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Message from Francine:
> > > >
> > > > Hi David,
> > > >
> > > > In regard to the BBC's crediting Harlow with making a breakthrough in
> > > > the nature-nuture debate:  XMCAr's who where not educated in American
> > > > psychology departments in the post WWII era don't realize how
> peculiar
> > > > the intellectual climate was back then.
> > > >
> > > >  B. F. Skinner's Behaviorism dominated American psychology from the
> > > > 1950's through the 1970's as a rigid Stimulus-Response Psychology. So
> > > > much so, that American psychologists were proclaiming a Cognitive
> > > > Revolution in psychology  in the 1980's - not realizing that Vygotsky
> > > > had already pioneered the study of  cognitive processes mediating
> > > > between stimulus and response. In 1924, when Vygotsky first presented
> > > > his theory, he had then credited Pavlov's later writings on the
> second
> > > > signal system. Since Mind in Society was first published in 1978,
> > > > American psychologists were only beginning to understand Vygotskian
> > > > theory - and just beginning to think in terms of dialectical
> psychology
> > > (such as nature-nurture interactions).
> > > >
> > > > In my pre-Vygotsky days, as a graduate student at the University of
> > > > Chicago during the 1970's Skinnerian behaviorism dominated the field,
> > > > Piaget's theory was the hottest new theory (imagine cognitive
> > > > developmental stages !!!), and Humanistic Psychology was the third
> > > > Force in psychology as an alternative to Behaviorism and orthodox
> > > > Freudian Psychoanalysis.
> > > > I knew there had to be something more - gradually I discovered books
> > > > on ego psychology
> > > > (neo-Freudians) that the School for Social Work Administration
> > > > assigned as texts for their courses. Then in 1976, when I was hired
> > > > full-time as a community college professor, I found two books in that
> > > > library that were just awesome - Klaus Reigel's Dialectical
> Psychology
> > > > - and Werner and Kaplan's Symbol Formation. One of my professor's at
> > > > U.C. actually told me that I did think like an American psychologist
> > > > (meaning that I don't fit in the department) - he said  "you think
> > > > like a European psychologist." In
> > > > 1984-1985 I translated the three Vygotsky papers on the development
> of
> > > > imagination and creativity and became a Vygotskian (or
> neo-Vygotskian,
> > > > whatever).
> > > >
> > > > And now American psychologists are just waking up to the fact that
> the
> > > > rest of the world has never used the American Psychiatric
> > > > Association's DSM system for diagnosis of psychiatric or
> psychological
> > > > disorders. Effective this October the ICD 10 (International
> > > > Classification of Diseases) has to be used to be in compliance with
> > > > HIPAA - I wonder what will happen to all those Abnormal Psychology
> > > > textbooks that are based exclusively on the DSM's five axes
> > > > categorical system.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 12:45:08 +0900
> > > > > From: dkellogg60@gmail.com
> > > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: BBC: Mind Changers
> > > > >
> > > > > I've listened to the first two (that is the last two) of them
> (Arden
> > > > House
> > > > > and Harlow's Monkeys) and I'm always impressed by how very
> > > > > IDEOLOGICAL
> > > > they
> > > > > are. I mean ideological with a capital I, in the sense of
> > > > > reinforcing whatever idea happens to dominate the dominant minds of
> > > > > the dominant
> > > > class,
> > > > > and I also mean that both the experiments themselves and their
> > > > > re-presentations by the BBC are ideological.
> > > > >
> > > > > So for example the in the Arden House experiments two graduate
> > > > > schools devise an experiment that is designed to show how
> > > > > life-affirming and life-enhancing consumer choice is and how
> > > > > life-denying and life-deadening it is to be taken care of by
> people.
> > > > > Amusingly, the BBC then has to re-present this experiment by
> gushing
> > > > > that the two graduate students had absolutely no idea of what they
> > > > > would find (because of course even the
> > > > BBC
> > > > > understands that if an experiment simply reinforces our prejudices,
> > > > > it's not very significant in the history of psychology).
> > > > >
> > > > > The programme on Harry Harlow's experiments follows more or less
> the
> > > > > same model. Harlow designs an experiment to prove that "love" and
> > > "attachment"
> > > > > (which are apparently sufficiently represented by a wrapping a
> > > > terry-cloth
> > > > > towel around a wire cylinder) are crucial to parenting. The BBC
> > > > re-presents
> > > > > this as an astonishing experiment by claiming that in the 1950s the
> > > > > big debate in psychology was over whether behavior was entirely
> > > > > innate or entirely learned, something that has not been true of
> > > > > psychology since Pavlov. Then the Beeb includes some criticism of
> > > > > Harlow--but much of it has to do with animal rights! The best
> > > > > critique came from Harlow himself, who assessing his own work,
> > > > > remarked that he had succeeded, through sheer sadism and at no
> > > > > inconsiderable government expense, in convincing psychologists of
> > > > > something everybody else has known for thousands of
> > > > years.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Kellogg
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Martin John Packer <
> > > > > mpacker@uniandes.edu.co> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This week the BBC has a series of interesting radio documentaries
> > > > > > on classical psychological studies:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008cy1j/episodes/player>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Martin
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > Assistant Professor
> > > Department of Anthropology
> > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > Brigham Young University
> > > Provo, UT 84602
> > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Both environment and species change in the course of time, and thus
> > ecological niches are not stable and given forever (Polotova & Storch,
> > Ecological Niche, 2008)
>
>

-- 
Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Anthropology
880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson