[Xmca-l] Re: BBC: Mind Changers

Mon Jul 13 10:14:11 PDT 2015

Message from Francine:

The similarities between Vygotsky's theory and John Dewey's colleague George
Herbert Mead's theory are even more striking. One thing that Vygotsky added, that Mead did not have, was the process of the internalization of speech (that could could be studied empirically (microgenetic)). 

Didn't Luria make a trip to the USA in the 1920s and presented a paper he co-authored with Vygotsky at a conference? I seem to recall reading that Vygotsky could not enter the USA because of his TB. Since papers are reviewed prior to acceptance there might have been some correspondence with members of a group like the APA. Both Dewey and his colleague J. R. Angell (founder of the psychology department at the University of Chicago) were both prominent members of the APA (also serving as its Presidents). Also Vygotsky traveled across Europe in the 1920s to present a paper in London (which I understand was never presented) - doubtless he had contact with several prominent psychologists (who might have read his paper as reviewers (and then rejected it ???)).

Of course there might just have been a Zeitgeist.

> From: mcole@ucsd.edu
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:14:42 -0700
> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: BBC: Mind Changers
> 
> The evidence of LSV having read at least some of Dewey is clear. Check the
> indexes of his collected work in English.
> 
> Their meeting is, as Peter says, a matter of speculation. The similarities
> of their ideas in many respects is a matter of considerable interest/debate.
> mike
> 
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Greg, as far as I know, the evidence is shaky, which hasn't stopped
> > speculation. One such effort:
> > Richard Prawat: Dewey Meets the “Mozart of Psychology” in Moscow: The
> > Untold Story American Educational Research Journal September 21, 2000 37:
> > 663-696,
> >
> > I remember when it came out, it got some attention on xmca, which you can
> > find in the archives I'm sure. p
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces+smago=uga.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > xmca-l-bounces+smago=uga.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson
> > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 10:24 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: BBC: Mind Changers
> >
> > Francine,
> > Don't forget that there was also that guy John Dewey that published The
> > Reflex Arc Concept in Psychology in 1896.
> > An important critique of behaviorism before it was cool.
> > I once heard that Vygotsky might have read Dewey, but I've never seen
> > evidence of this. Anyone?
> > -greg
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 12:31 AM, larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Message from Francine:
> > >
> > > Hi David,
> > >
> > > In regard to the BBC's crediting Harlow with making a breakthrough in
> > > the nature-nuture debate:  XMCAr's who where not educated in American
> > > psychology departments in the post WWII era don't realize how peculiar
> > > the intellectual climate was back then.
> > >
> > >  B. F. Skinner's Behaviorism dominated American psychology from the
> > > 1950's through the 1970's as a rigid Stimulus-Response Psychology. So
> > > much so, that American psychologists were proclaiming a Cognitive
> > > Revolution in psychology  in the 1980's - not realizing that Vygotsky
> > > had already pioneered the study of  cognitive processes mediating
> > > between stimulus and response. In 1924, when Vygotsky first presented
> > > his theory, he had then credited Pavlov's later writings on the second
> > > signal system. Since Mind in Society was first published in 1978,
> > > American psychologists were only beginning to understand Vygotskian
> > > theory - and just beginning to think in terms of dialectical psychology
> > (such as nature-nurture interactions).
> > >
> > > In my pre-Vygotsky days, as a graduate student at the University of
> > > Chicago during the 1970's Skinnerian behaviorism dominated the field,
> > > Piaget's theory was the hottest new theory (imagine cognitive
> > > developmental stages !!!), and Humanistic Psychology was the third
> > > Force in psychology as an alternative to Behaviorism and orthodox
> > > Freudian Psychoanalysis.
> > > I knew there had to be something more - gradually I discovered books
> > > on ego psychology
> > > (neo-Freudians) that the School for Social Work Administration
> > > assigned as texts for their courses. Then in 1976, when I was hired
> > > full-time as a community college professor, I found two books in that
> > > library that were just awesome - Klaus Reigel's Dialectical Psychology
> > > - and Werner and Kaplan's Symbol Formation. One of my professor's at
> > > U.C. actually told me that I did think like an American psychologist
> > > (meaning that I don't fit in the department) - he said  "you think
> > > like a European psychologist." In
> > > 1984-1985 I translated the three Vygotsky papers on the development of
> > > imagination and creativity and became a Vygotskian (or neo-Vygotskian,
> > > whatever).
> > >
> > > And now American psychologists are just waking up to the fact that the
> > > rest of the world has never used the American Psychiatric
> > > Association's DSM system for diagnosis of psychiatric or psychological
> > > disorders. Effective this October the ICD 10 (International
> > > Classification of Diseases) has to be used to be in compliance with
> > > HIPAA - I wonder what will happen to all those Abnormal Psychology
> > > textbooks that are based exclusively on the DSM's five axes
> > > categorical system.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 12:45:08 +0900
> > > > From: dkellogg60@gmail.com
> > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: BBC: Mind Changers
> > > >
> > > > I've listened to the first two (that is the last two) of them (Arden
> > > House
> > > > and Harlow's Monkeys) and I'm always impressed by how very
> > > > IDEOLOGICAL
> > > they
> > > > are. I mean ideological with a capital I, in the sense of
> > > > reinforcing whatever idea happens to dominate the dominant minds of
> > > > the dominant
> > > class,
> > > > and I also mean that both the experiments themselves and their
> > > > re-presentations by the BBC are ideological.
> > > >
> > > > So for example the in the Arden House experiments two graduate
> > > > schools devise an experiment that is designed to show how
> > > > life-affirming and life-enhancing consumer choice is and how
> > > > life-denying and life-deadening it is to be taken care of by people.
> > > > Amusingly, the BBC then has to re-present this experiment by gushing
> > > > that the two graduate students had absolutely no idea of what they
> > > > would find (because of course even the
> > > BBC
> > > > understands that if an experiment simply reinforces our prejudices,
> > > > it's not very significant in the history of psychology).
> > > >
> > > > The programme on Harry Harlow's experiments follows more or less the
> > > > same model. Harlow designs an experiment to prove that "love" and
> > "attachment"
> > > > (which are apparently sufficiently represented by a wrapping a
> > > terry-cloth
> > > > towel around a wire cylinder) are crucial to parenting. The BBC
> > > re-presents
> > > > this as an astonishing experiment by claiming that in the 1950s the
> > > > big debate in psychology was over whether behavior was entirely
> > > > innate or entirely learned, something that has not been true of
> > > > psychology since Pavlov. Then the Beeb includes some criticism of
> > > > Harlow--but much of it has to do with animal rights! The best
> > > > critique came from Harlow himself, who assessing his own work,
> > > > remarked that he had succeeded, through sheer sadism and at no
> > > > inconsiderable government expense, in convincing psychologists of
> > > > something everybody else has known for thousands of
> > > years.
> > > >
> > > > David Kellogg
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Martin John Packer <
> > > > mpacker@uniandes.edu.co> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This week the BBC has a series of interesting radio documentaries
> > > > > on classical psychological studies:
> > > > >
> > > > > <http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008cy1j/episodes/player>
> > > > >
> > > > > Martin
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > Assistant Professor
> > Department of Anthropology
> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > Brigham Young University
> > Provo, UT 84602
> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Both environment and species change in the course of time, and thus
> ecological niches are not stable and given forever (Polotova & Storch,
> Ecological Niche, 2008)