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Re: [xmca] Emotions and methodology

Hi Larry, Glad to hear from you! I agree with your concerns about the VSB interpretation; a focus on "the individual" is common across the SEL and positive youth development literature, though Hoffman (2009) has a terrific piece raising this concern among others ... I attached it here. Let's continue to chat off xmca. Best to all - jennifer

Hi Jennifer

I've wanted to come over some time and say Hi and introduce myself as a fellow Vancouverite. I am aware that you work out at UBC because I googled Vygotsky and UBC and your name popped up. I read your resume and was excited to see your areas of research. I did my master's degree in Counselling Psychology at UBC with Richard Young. I also have taken courses with Lanney Kanevsky at SFU. As you can see by my response to Mabel I just posted what my interests are. I want to look at your article on social emotional learning as it is a big focus in the Vancouver School District and I anm worried about its focus on the individual as the locus of change and does not emphasize the "social turn"

I live out at UBC so I hope we can meet in person.


----- Original Message -----
From: Jennifer Vadeboncoeur <vadebonc@interchange.ubc.ca>
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:10 am
Subject: Re: [xmca] Emotions and methodology
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>

 Mabel and Martin,

 A colleague and I are finishing up a paper
 looking at SEL programs and we've also used
 Martin's (2001) piece, The problem of transfer,
 and the sociocultural critique of schooling in
 the Journal of the Learning Sciences to think
 through ontology, the production of positions for
 identities, and the role of schooling in the
 process of "producing" certain kinds of
 "outcomes" for children and youth. The "purpose
 of schooling" is a central issue to (all of) our
 work, and one that surfaced at AERA several years
 ago as well.

 Nel Noddings work may help in a tangential way,
 because she is concerned as well with creating a
 school context that addresses the whole person-a
 person with cognitive, affective, social
 abilities and relationships. She has challenged
 folks like Cohen of the Center for Social and
 Emotional Education, recently, to think through
 changes in school climate on a broader and more
 relational level.

 Best - jennifer

 >Yes, this is where LSV insists on the importance
 >of not confusing epistemological issues with
 >ontological ones. It's one of the more puzzling
 >passages in Crisis, and I suspect there are some
 >problems with the translation. (Is the indented
 >passage a quotation from Hoffding? Does anyone
 >have that text?) Nothing here about
 >methodological dualism, however. I don't think
 >this passage is the place to start to understand
 >better the distinction between epistemology and
 >ontology, if that is what you want to do.
 >You might consider taking a look here (if so tell me whether or
 not it helps):
 >Packer, M. J., & Goicoechea, J. (2000).
 >Sociocultural and constructivist theories of
 >learning: Ontology, not just epistemology.
 >Educational Psychologist, 35(4), 227-241.
 >On Nov 14, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Mabel Encinas wrote:
 >>  Martin,
 >>  Here it is (Andy sent it to me, I have it in
 >>hardcopy Vol 3 of Vygotsky's Collected Works,
 >>p. 310):
 >>  Mabel
 >>>  Subject: Re: [xmca] Emotions and methodology
 >>>  From: packer@duq.edu
 >>>  Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:42:06 -0500
 >>>  To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
 >>>  Mabel,
 >>>  I confess I don't recognize the term
 >>>methodological dualism. Where are you finding
 > >>>  Martin
 >>>  On Nov 14, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Mabel Encinas wrote:
 >>>>  My question to Andy was if he could please
 >>>>give me some references about the
 >>>>difference-relation between ontological and
 >>>>methodological dualism? I was aimed to get
 >>>>some contemporary references to this
 >>>>discussion. I already had read Vygotsky. Does
 >>>>anyone has a suggestion, please?
 >>>>  Thank you,
 >>>>  Mabel
 >>>>>  Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:56:07 -0800
 >>>>>  Subject: Re: [xmca] Hello Other Brain, how are you?
 >>>>>  From: lchcmike@gmail.com
 >>>>>  To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
 >>>>>  There was a discussion of this topic around
 >>>>>your MCA article a while back,
 >>>>>  Michael. Mabel might be able to use some of
 >>>>>the specific techniques, which,
 >>>>>  I recall, were not too demading in terms of
 >>>>>technology, to find a bridge to
 >>>>>  what her advisors expect.
 >>>>>  Martin's sources are right on. But Mabel is
 >>>>>going to have to negotiate the
 >>>>>  rocky
 >>>>>  shoals of her own institutional situation,
 >>>>>and invoking XMCA is not likely
 >>>>>  to win her a lot of friends!!
 >>>>>  mike
 >>>>>  On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:16 AM,
 >>>>>Wolff-Michael Roth <mroth@uvic.ca> wrote:
 >>>>>>  In the following piece, we show how
 >>>>>>emotion (as evidenced in prosody) is a
 >>>>>>  resource for the coordination of social action. Michael
 >  >>>>>
 >>>>>>  Cult Stud of Sci Educ
 >>>>>>  DOI 10.1007/s11422-009-9203-8
 >>>>>>  Solidarity and conflict: aligned and misaligned prosody
 >>>>>>  as a transactional resource in intra- and intercultural
 >>>>>>  communication involving power differences
 >>>>>>  Wolff-Michael Roth Æ Kenneth Tobin
 >>>>>>  here
 >>>>>>  On 2009-11-14, at 6:55 AM, Martin Packer wrote:
 >  >>>>>
 >>>>>>  I'm going to ignore Andy's request to
 >>>>>>ignore his message to Mabel, because
 >>>>>>  I'm sure Mabel is not the only person being told
 this sort of thing. The
 >>>>>>  claim, I suppose, is that emotion is a
 >>>>>>subjective experience, and therefore
 >>>>>>  something mental, internal, personal,
 >>>>>>private and so inaccessible to other
 >>>>>>  people, including the researcher, who has access
 only to the external
 >>>>>>  'expression' of that emotion, on the face, in
 movements, etc.
 >>>>>>  Nonsense. How to argue against that view? Take a
 look at Joe de Rivera's
 >>>>>>  work on emotions as interpersonal
 >>>>>>movements, towards or away from people on
 >>>>>>  three interpersonal dimensions of
 >>>>>>intimacy, openness, and status. Read Hall
 >>>>>>  and Cobey (1976) on emotion as transformation of
 the world. Read Mead's
 >>>>>>  Mind, Self and Society where he challenges Darwin,
 insisting that "we
 >>>>>>  cannot approach them [emotions] from the point of
 view of expressing a
 >>>>>>  content in the mind of the individual" (p.
 >>>>>>17) because to do so presumes a
 >>>>>>  dualism between consciousness and the biological
 >>>>>>  These are some resources that come
 >>>>>>immediately to my mind. What can others
 >>>>>>  out there recommend?
 >>>>>>  Martin
 >>>>>>  On Nov 14, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
 >>>>>>  You have good muses Mabel (Vygotsky and Marx), pity you
 >>>>>>>  don't have better supervisors. Your approach, studying
 >>>>>>>  microsituations as social, is Vygotsky's approach
 too, I
 >>>>>>>  think, and excellent one, that is often, I fear,
 not well
 >>>>>>>  understood. I am probably the last person to ask
 about that
 >>>>>>>  kind of problem as I have a devil of a problem
 making myself
 >>>>>>>  understood. Others will know the answers to your
 questions>>>>>>>  better than me, too. But I will mention a
 few suggestions.
 >>>>>>>  Mabel Encinas wrote:
 >>>>>>>>  My supervisors are questioning now, that I do not
 > study emotions, but
 >>>>>>>>  "the expression of emotions". I know how
 >>>>>>>>to solidify my argument in this
 >>>>>>>>  bit, but could you please give me some
 >>>>>>>>references of where should I read
 >>>>>>>>  about the difference-relation between ontological
 and methodological
 >>>>>>>>  dualism?
 >>>>>>>  I guess you have already read Vygotsky's comments on
 >>>>>>>  ontological vs methodological/epistemological dualism:
 >>>>>>>  If you use Google on this one, you will probably
 find a page
 >>>>>>>  where I am being attacked by someone called
 Neville for
 >>>>>>>  failing to make this distinction. I am far from
 sure of the
 >>>>>>>  value of that exchange but you are welcome to read
 it. I
 >>>>>>>  would not attempt a short summary of this issue.
 >>>>>>>  I am not sure what you are being accused of about
 emotions.>>>>>>>  Martha Nussbaum is a Critical Theorist
 who writes good stuff
 >>>>>>>  about emotions. And of course everyone reads Antonio
 >>>>>>>  Damassio, with his distinction between feelings and
 >>>>>>>  emotions. Certainly, emotions are only present in
 >>>>>>>  consciousness thanks to their "interpretation" by
 culturally>>>>>>>  acquired concepts.
 >>>>>>>  ""the expression of emotions" is a strange
 expression to me.
 >>>>>>>  Are they using "emotions" to refer to forms of
 consciousness>>>>>>>  which are "expressed" in high blood
 pressure, etc? Or are
 >>>>>>>  they using "emotions" to refer to physiological
 conditions,>>>>>>>  which are "expressed" in the character
 of behavior. I don't
 >>>>>>>  understand. I am sure others will know. Sounds
 like a
 >>>>>>>  template accusation.
 >>>>>>>  Andy
 >>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
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 >>>>>>>  xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
 >>>>>>>  http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
 >  >>>>>>
 >>>>>>  _______________________________________________
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 >>>>>>  xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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 >>>>>  xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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Jennifer A. Vadeboncoeur, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
The University of British Columbia
Faculty of Education
2125 Main Mall
Library Block 272B
Vancouver BC V6T-1Z4

phone: 1.604.822.9099
fax: 1.604.822.3302

Attachment: Hoffman 2009 - reflecting on SEL.pdf
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